HS2, whats the current status ?
Discussion
PRTVR said:
Very interesting.popeyewhite said:
valiant said:
<sigh> It’s not about reduced journey times but increasing capacity and future proofing our network. Reduced journey time is a side benefit and it should never have been sold as such.
Don't you <sigh> at me you rail company stooge. Go and patronise someone else. 
There's more to life than continuously grasping for money and economic happiness. I couldn't give a monley's about "future proofing our network", for businesses/businessmen. The phrase itself is lunacy - by the time the thing's finished HS2 will be outdated. 
Talksteer said:
eVTOL aircraft at scales 4-50 seats are a much better solution than high speed rail and will have faster door to door journey times.
How far away, realistically speaking (and not Utopian spokesperson of Silicon Valley speaking), are we to such regional eVTOL craft?Most of us have seen articles about eVTOL taxi prototypes and testing in a small number of countries. But your largest figure (up to 50 seats) truly speaks to regional needs and to a supplanting of rail that could be utterly revolutionary.
The prospect of on-demand booking and boarding, with departures and arrivals distributed across a network of convenient and relatively low-cost landing sites is very appealing.
Not about trains, but this comment got me thinking:
It's fine for them to now say "there's more to life than money" or "the cost is too high", but I wonder what their reaction would have been if their ability to develop a career / build up equity had been curtailed when they were 20 odd.
Walk a mile in someone else's shoes and all that (or perhaps drive 20 miles in their van trying to get to a customer on time so you can make end meet).
Similar to the nimbys near me who decry losing our green heritage to new housing. But your house was once green space? Mumble mumble that's different...it's not me.
On hs2, in my view the gravy train has already left the station. No one is going to pull the stop cord, because none of the passengers taking a ride on it (consultants, contractors etc) want to have to get out and walk. The private sector is going to fleece the tax payer to the point that public sector inefficiency actually looks preferable.
popeyewhite said:
There's more to life than continuously grasping for money and economic happiness. I couldn't give a monley's about "future proofing "
I'm curious about what stage in their careers a lot of the objectors are? Many of the types protecting ancient woodland round my way are retired professional types with expensive houses.It's fine for them to now say "there's more to life than money" or "the cost is too high", but I wonder what their reaction would have been if their ability to develop a career / build up equity had been curtailed when they were 20 odd.
Walk a mile in someone else's shoes and all that (or perhaps drive 20 miles in their van trying to get to a customer on time so you can make end meet).
Similar to the nimbys near me who decry losing our green heritage to new housing. But your house was once green space? Mumble mumble that's different...it's not me.
On hs2, in my view the gravy train has already left the station. No one is going to pull the stop cord, because none of the passengers taking a ride on it (consultants, contractors etc) want to have to get out and walk. The private sector is going to fleece the tax payer to the point that public sector inefficiency actually looks preferable.
Ian Geary said:
No one is going to pull the stop cord, because none of the passengers taking a ride on it (consultants, contractors etc) want to have to get out and walk. .
...and the 'losses incurred in pulling the plug on the project' ticket has already been issued. Of course it's a tiny, tiny portion of 108 billion, but my worry is these are the people who make noise the government will listen to.dcb said:
HS2 looks to me like merely extending the London commuter belt into the Midlands.
Not good for anyone.
Not quite, well paid geeks will be fine.Not good for anyone.
"Goldman Sachs could move half its London technology jobs to Birmingham. Insiders are ok with that"
https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/3003049/g...
borcy said:
popeyewhite said:
valiant said:
<sigh> It’s not about reduced journey times but increasing capacity and future proofing our network. Reduced journey time is a side benefit and it should never have been sold as such.
Don't you <sigh> at me you rail company stooge. Go and patronise someone else. There's more to life than continuously grasping for money and economic happiness. I couldn't give a monley's about "future proofing our network", for businesses/businessmen. The phrase itself is lunacy - by the time the thing's finished HS2 will be outdated. Some things need to be justified, but some things just need building for the long term future. Ports, railways, national motorway networks, airports. All of them we get immense benefit from today on the back of yesterdays bold foresight to just get on with it.
For what its worth, yes, HS2 should be repositioned to be about a massive capacity increase to improve potential for passengers and freight long term. Thats just not as sexy a fast trains though so its ended up in the hole its in, selling the wrong benefit.
Carl_Manchester said:
BBC reporting tonight (11pm)that HS2 has been green lit.
London to Brum section only for now. My suspicion is that BJ will say he has fixed it so that bit comes in at a bargain £50B. By the time it’s done, he won’t be PM anymore so won’t have to explain the cost and schedule overruns. The northern section will go into a ‘review’, and might never emerge.As I see it, there is a small shift of gravity, away from the capital, which many have long thought sensible a.) to 'give' some economic activity to the regions and b.) to take some of the load off the capital. Examples are the BBC shifting to Manchester (who thought radio presenters could be even more irritating when they weren't being London-centric?!) and HSB moving its UK HQ to Birmingham.
Given the above is beginning to happen, it is sensible to spread rail investment northward. I would like to see more; not just the Leeds-Manchester, but what ever happened about the promised car and HGV terminals for Eurotunnel trains in the Midlands?
If the plan is to spread economic activity and GDP and get the regions engaged, you need the infrastructure.
Given the above is beginning to happen, it is sensible to spread rail investment northward. I would like to see more; not just the Leeds-Manchester, but what ever happened about the promised car and HGV terminals for Eurotunnel trains in the Midlands?
If the plan is to spread economic activity and GDP and get the regions engaged, you need the infrastructure.
Digga said:
As I see it, there is a small shift of gravity, away from the capital, which many have long thought sensible a.) to 'give' some economic activity to the regions and b.) to take some of the load off the capital. Examples are the BBC shifting to Manchester (who thought radio presenters could be even more irritating when they weren't being London-centric?!) and HSB moving its UK HQ to Birmingham.
Given the above is beginning to happen, it is sensible to spread rail investment northward. I would like to see more; not just the Leeds-Manchester, but what ever happened about the promised car and HGV terminals for Eurotunnel trains in the Midlands?
If the plan is to spread economic activity and GDP and get the regions engaged, you need the infrastructure.
Agreed.Given the above is beginning to happen, it is sensible to spread rail investment northward. I would like to see more; not just the Leeds-Manchester, but what ever happened about the promised car and HGV terminals for Eurotunnel trains in the Midlands?
If the plan is to spread economic activity and GDP and get the regions engaged, you need the infrastructure.
borcy said:
Good news that is been agreed to carry on with the building of it.
Totally. Huge chunks were already, effectively built, including very expensive bits in the centre of Birmingham. On the industrial estate where we send components to be induction hardened, half of the buildings have been demolished in preparation for a rail shunting/marshaling yard. The whole Curzon Street site for the terminus is pretty much ready to go.I'm sick of petty NIMBYism, disguised as environmental concern getting in the way of obviously vital infrastructure. The alternative is chaos. We need to be more Victorian!
Robertj21a said:
The extensions to Leeds etc really HAVE to be built if it is to genuinely benefit the North.
Many in the north would still prefer the money to be spent linking up all the cities from Liverpool to Hull, rather than yet another improvement which is primarily for London.
I think the Liverpool-Hull axis could eventually benefit too. The default route for that would surely be via Manchester and Leeds?Many in the north would still prefer the money to be spent linking up all the cities from Liverpool to Hull, rather than yet another improvement which is primarily for London.
WRT Liverpool, it will also benefit from new links from Crewe, through to Wigan.
P.S. What is the northern rail terminus equivalent of Mornington Crescent?
Robertj21a said:
The extensions to Leeds etc really HAVE to be built if it is to genuinely benefit the North.
Many in the north would still prefer the money to be spent linking up all the cities from Liverpool to Hull, rather than yet another improvement which is primarily for London.
Absolutely. Anyone who’s has to commute across the Pennines Will know how badly better connectivity is needed.Many in the north would still prefer the money to be spent linking up all the cities from Liverpool to Hull, rather than yet another improvement which is primarily for London.
Sheffield to Manchester takes a minimum of 50mins by train (which is about 35 miles). Sheffield to Leeds 45 mins.
Leeds to Manchester 50 mins minimum.
Those journey times (for 3 major cities each about 35 miles apart) are an embarrassment in such a wealthy nation.
Overall it’s a generally positive step IMO - but the local connections and the east-west trans-pennine issue will be the real game changer up here, if they ever get done...
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