HS2, whats the current status ?
Discussion
greygoose said:
JPJPJP said:
112 people on more than £150,000 and £600 million on consultants in a year, that is some gravy train.Saying they have a grip on finances is rubbish.
I went for an Interview last year with HS2 in contracting.
Now I have 20 years plus experiance in engineering, manufacturing, new builds in contra t management.
I was interviewed by some fresh faced out of uni lass reading off a carefully prepared script with some standard questions.
They have 2 layers of contract management as it is such a political hot potato that any contract you want to put in place has to go to another team who then go through it and send off to their legal team to ensure its squeaky clean. Obviously this is triplicating work and shows that they dont have a clue what they are doing.
I asked what contracts we would be involved in and they have no idea. Just a case of doing stuff as and when it crops up.
Rather than getting people into posts based on their background and experiance rhey are trying to shoehorn people into posts which they have vacant (although they dont know what these vacant posts are managing)
Call me old fashioned but being intrviewed by someone with no experiance apart from university education going off a pre scripted list doesn't fill me with any confidence at all.
It all seems to be a finger in the air and lets see what crops up. For a new company there is already a pretty big staff turnaround in this department.
Add in their nice new 15 floor brand new offices you can see this is just a money pit already out of control.
First traffic restrictions for HS2 works starting in our area on 20th August.
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/commonplace-cus...
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/commonplace-cus...
J4CKO said:
3 Years and 5 months since starting the thread, has anything happened ?
Other countries seem to just crack on, a roundabout near where I live has been subject to roadworks as long as this thread, why does stuff take so long.
I wasn't expecting it to be finished, maybe some clarity on whether it will happen, but like Brexit, confusion seems the only thing getting built.
Total waste of time and money in my view.Other countries seem to just crack on, a roundabout near where I live has been subject to roadworks as long as this thread, why does stuff take so long.
I wasn't expecting it to be finished, maybe some clarity on whether it will happen, but like Brexit, confusion seems the only thing getting built.
Minimal decrease in journey times for most, seeing as it only goes as far as Leeds; naturally nothing north of that matters. Not Newcastle, or Edinburgh (capital city of Scotland FFS!), Glasgow, Aberdeen etc etc.
Good way to widen the north/south divide yet further.
As others have said, other countries just crack on, and wouldn't exclude half the country from it.
TameRacingDriver said:
Total waste of time and money in my view.
Minimal decrease in journey times for most, seeing as it only goes as far as Leeds; naturally nothing north of that matters. Not Newcastle, or Edinburgh (capital city of Scotland FFS!), Glasgow, Aberdeen etc etc.
Good way to widen the north/south divide yet further.
As others have said, other countries just crack on, and wouldn't exclude half the country from it.
Ignoring the traffic levels which are far too low to justify the eyebleeding cost of extending high speed rail north of the central belt to Perth/Dundee/Inverness/Aberdeen, these lines have barely been touched since the age of steam, no electrification and still using semaphore signals. Scotrail are introducing HST sometime this year, only 4 decades after it was introduced to the rest of the rail network. Even with state-of-the-art-1975 technology the time to get between the central belt and Aberdeen will not be much shorter than with the sMinimal decrease in journey times for most, seeing as it only goes as far as Leeds; naturally nothing north of that matters. Not Newcastle, or Edinburgh (capital city of Scotland FFS!), Glasgow, Aberdeen etc etc.
Good way to widen the north/south divide yet further.
As others have said, other countries just crack on, and wouldn't exclude half the country from it.
tty turbostar wrecks in use at the moment as the track will not allow much more speed. I just hope the refurbishment of the HSTs doesn't result in the seat pitch being squeezed by the beancounters, removing the one remaining advantage of Mk3 coaches over the cattle class 170 after the philistines decided to remove the buffet car.hidetheelephants said:
TameRacingDriver said:
Total waste of time and money in my view.
Minimal decrease in journey times for most, seeing as it only goes as far as Leeds; naturally nothing north of that matters. Not Newcastle, or Edinburgh (capital city of Scotland FFS!), Glasgow, Aberdeen etc etc.
Good way to widen the north/south divide yet further.
As others have said, other countries just crack on, and wouldn't exclude half the country from it.
Ignoring the traffic levels which are far too low to justify the eyebleeding cost of extending high speed rail north of the central belt to Perth/Dundee/Inverness/Aberdeen, these lines have barely been touched since the age of steam, no electrification and still using semaphore signals. Scotrail are introducing HST sometime this year, only 4 decades after it was introduced to the rest of the rail network. Even with state-of-the-art-1975 technology the time to get between the central belt and Aberdeen will not be much shorter than with the sMinimal decrease in journey times for most, seeing as it only goes as far as Leeds; naturally nothing north of that matters. Not Newcastle, or Edinburgh (capital city of Scotland FFS!), Glasgow, Aberdeen etc etc.
Good way to widen the north/south divide yet further.
As others have said, other countries just crack on, and wouldn't exclude half the country from it.
tty turbostar wrecks in use at the moment as the track will not allow much more speed. I just hope the refurbishment of the HSTs doesn't result in the seat pitch being squeezed by the beancounters, removing the one remaining advantage of Mk3 coaches over the cattle class 170 after the philistines decided to remove the buffet car.But alas, that would require even more money. And take another 20 years to get any sort of approval.
Sheepshanks said:
Downward said:
Call me old fashioned but being intrviewed by someone with no experiance apart from university education going off a pre scripted list doesn't fill me with any confidence at all.
So you didn't get the job then? 
Downward said:
Now I have 20 years plus experiance in engineering, manufacturing, new builds in contra t management.
...
Rather than getting people into posts based on their background and experiance rhey are trying to shoehorn people into posts which they have vacant (although they dont know what these vacant posts are managing)
Call me old fashioned but being intrviewed by someone with no experiance apart from university education going off a pre scripted list doesn't fill me with any confidence at all.
Hopefully you put more effort into your job application (particularly in terms of spell-checking) than you do into posting on here ?...
Rather than getting people into posts based on their background and experiance rhey are trying to shoehorn people into posts which they have vacant (although they dont know what these vacant posts are managing)
Call me old fashioned but being intrviewed by someone with no experiance apart from university education going off a pre scripted list doesn't fill me with any confidence at all.
TameRacingDriver said:
Total waste of time and money in my view.
Minimal decrease in journey times for most, seeing as it only goes as far as Leeds; naturally nothing north of that matters. Not Newcastle, or Edinburgh (capital city of Scotland FFS!), Glasgow, Aberdeen etc etc.
Good way to widen the north/south divide yet further.
As others have said, other countries just crack on, and wouldn't exclude half the country from it.
20 odd years ago one of the justifications used to promote the use of public money for the Channel Tunnel in Scotland, was direct trains to the continent from Glasgow and Edinburgh. Never came to pass and never will. The HS2 budget black hole will suck every penny of rail investment for the next 20 years, impacting every region not connected to the new shiny stuff. Minimal decrease in journey times for most, seeing as it only goes as far as Leeds; naturally nothing north of that matters. Not Newcastle, or Edinburgh (capital city of Scotland FFS!), Glasgow, Aberdeen etc etc.
Good way to widen the north/south divide yet further.
As others have said, other countries just crack on, and wouldn't exclude half the country from it.
The more you look at this thing the more of a disaster it is, but no one has the balls to stop it.
Earthdweller said:
Watched the documentary on the M1 motorway the other day ... fascinating
But .. apparantly they built all 200 miles of it, junctions, link roads and bridges in 18 months .. on time and under budget
For the southern section it was something like one month from award of contract to appointing project managers.But .. apparantly they built all 200 miles of it, junctions, link roads and bridges in 18 months .. on time and under budget
Seven days a week working, twenty four hours a day.
My dad was a fresh-faced salesman, just started work for (the then great) Ruston Bucyrus when the M62 project was underway. The rock they shifted on that section over Scammonden dam was epic.
I used to know some of the original muckshifters that drove the Caterpillar D6's on the big motorway jobs. If you look at the pictures of the scale of that work, it's unreal. We could have kept the impetus but squab pandered that opportunity. Our road network is screwed. The M6 by Stafford has been shut at least one direction three times this week alone. And there's no by pass for the town.
We pay first world taxes for second rate infrastructure.
I used to know some of the original muckshifters that drove the Caterpillar D6's on the big motorway jobs. If you look at the pictures of the scale of that work, it's unreal. We could have kept the impetus but squab pandered that opportunity. Our road network is screwed. The M6 by Stafford has been shut at least one direction three times this week alone. And there's no by pass for the town.
We pay first world taxes for second rate infrastructure.
V8 Fettler said:
Earthdweller said:
Watched the documentary on the M1 motorway the other day ... fascinating
But .. apparantly they built all 200 miles of it, junctions, link roads and bridges in 18 months .. on time and under budget
For the southern section it was something like one month from award of contract to appointing project managers.But .. apparantly they built all 200 miles of it, junctions, link roads and bridges in 18 months .. on time and under budget
Seven days a week working, twenty four hours a day.
“Right lads in 18 months we are going to land an Army of one million men on the beaches of a heavily defended continent then fight our way across it and overrun and destroy the very battle hardened troops defending it”
Oh yes .. we’ll have to recruit arms and train those men .. build all the ships and planes . Even build our own harbours and supply lines
1942-2018
Where and how have we lost the ability to do anything ?
mcdjl said:
That sounds awfully close to a train.... Except that each carriage will need a driver for the last mile or two.
Except the costs are a fraction of a train, the flexibility is much greater and buses are cheaper than trains today even with one driver per coach.If it fails you've just built a dual carriageway that you can run cars on.
They key element is that you provide the infrastructure and anyone who is compliant with the standard can play.
It's also scalable with the combination of new build roads and converted motorways, ultimately the next phase of motorways may be autonomous electric high speed running anyway, much cheaper than a train.
Earthdweller said:
Watched the documentary on the M1 motorway the other day ... fascinating
But .. apparantly they built all 200 miles of it, junctions, link roads and bridges in 18 months .. on time and under budget
I read that and thought - no way! Bit of Googling and it was just the first section that was done in 18mths. Still impressive though.But .. apparantly they built all 200 miles of it, junctions, link roads and bridges in 18 months .. on time and under budget
Earthdweller said:
V8 Fettler said:
Earthdweller said:
Watched the documentary on the M1 motorway the other day ... fascinating
But .. apparantly they built all 200 miles of it, junctions, link roads and bridges in 18 months .. on time and under budget
For the southern section it was something like one month from award of contract to appointing project managers.But .. apparantly they built all 200 miles of it, junctions, link roads and bridges in 18 months .. on time and under budget
Seven days a week working, twenty four hours a day.
“Right lads in 18 months we are going to land an Army of one million men on the beaches of a heavily defended continent then fight our way across it and overrun and destroy the very battle hardened troops defending it”
Oh yes .. we’ll have to recruit arms and train those men .. build all the ships and planes . Even build our own harbours and supply lines
1942-2018
Where and how have we lost the ability to do anything ?
Secondly the reason they had that authority is that the course of action was obvious and agreed upon by the nation.
HS2 is a very poor idea, many people disagree with it, to get it to happen virtually every stakeholder has been able to add requirements which is why it runs most of its length in deep cuttings or tunnels vastly increasing cost.
The M1 was popular, industry had practiced on the M6 and there was not sustained objection to it.
As a society/world we are perfectly capable of moving fast in new areas where there isn't an established infrastructure and regulatory system in place and where the new technology is popular.
The final thing is project risk and the vitality of the industry. In WWII the planning and execution of the war was given to the best and the brightest what is more the war industry had the scale to allow multiple bets which facilitated sensible risk taking.
If a given element of the plan or technology didn't work out they had a backup.
On the M1 it was part a very large road building project.
Today in technology if a given venture goes tits up it really doesn't matter that much everyone will get a job somewhere else and someone else will succeed.
HS2 is a political and industrial bet the company/industry moment, there is no high speed rail industry to fall back on or draw experience from, it cannot afford to fail, which is why it will.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The vehicles would be autonomous as such they would be capable of operating pretty near to bumper to bumper. With only other autonomous vehicles on the route vehicle to vehicle communications would enable close running even in foul weather.As for cost, National Express is currently cheaper than rail and that accounts for paying drivers and buses to sit through congestion which would be negligible for journeys directly replicating HS2.
A dedicated high speed bus would have a corrosion free composite chassis and a considerably reduced maintenance requirements due to an electric drive line.
The key element however would be volume production, the principle reason why trains are expensive to produce is that they are not frequently built at volumes which allow design for manufacture and are basically hand built out of low volume hand built components. A high speed bus would have substantial content from automotive and as such be cheap as (micro) chips.
Unlike rail there is no requirement for standardisation between vehicles so we can scrap and replace vehicles at will.
By the time HS2 is built it is likely pretty feasible that autonomous vehicles will be common on the roads, particularly with the drive.ai philosophy where they are not trying to develop a general purpose self driving vehicle from the get go. Instead they are designing a vehicle which can operate on city streets which have been surveyed and do not include obstacles like roadworks which confuse self driving vehicles.
In this context and unmanned high speed electric bus would hammer HS2 on costs. As for that matter would electric regional aircraft.
It would be more like this than a National Express.....
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