HS2, whats the current status ?
Discussion
steveT350C said:
'HS2 predicted noise levels would breach new World Health Organisation limits'...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/23/hs...
“The disclosure will add to fears that the speed of HS2 trains could be lowered, or its costs driven up, in order to reduce the noise or install more sound barriers and tunnels to help contain the sound of the railway”.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/23/hs...
So more money or slower speed - it’s a winner however you look at it!
V8 Fettler said:
Crazy waste of money, should be building transport routes for the 21st century and beyond; designed for flexible, automated electric vehicles.
Nope. Trains carry huge capacity into densely packed cities.Take Leeds to London - 8 carriages (?) - 60 people in each - so 480 capacity - there is no way that autonomous vehicles can replace that density or speed.
We need a mix.
Vaud said:
V8 Fettler said:
Crazy waste of money, should be building transport routes for the 21st century and beyond; designed for flexible, automated electric vehicles.
Nope. Trains carry huge capacity into densely packed cities.Take Leeds to London - 8 carriages (?) - 60 people in each - so 480 capacity - there is no way that autonomous vehicles can replace that density or speed.
We need a mix.
Vaud said:
V8 Fettler said:
Crazy waste of money, should be building transport routes for the 21st century and beyond; designed for flexible, automated electric vehicles.
Nope. Trains carry huge capacity into densely packed cities.Take Leeds to London - 8 carriages (?) - 60 people in each - so 480 capacity - there is no way that autonomous vehicles can replace that density or speed.
We need a mix.
Make places like Leeds and Manchester more viable, accessible and connected so that people don’t have to travel 200 miles to London to work ??
Earthdweller said:
Maybe, we should be looking at ways of living and working that don’t need trains with the huge capacity to bring people into densely packed cities
Make places like Leeds and Manchester more viable, accessible and connected so that people don’t have to travel 200 miles to London to work ??
I agree completely. I work from home and 99% of interactions are by voice/video/collaborative online tools. My annual mileage is about 4k by car, all nursery drops and then holidays.Make places like Leeds and Manchester more viable, accessible and connected so that people don’t have to travel 200 miles to London to work ??
Face to face meetings are always needed sometimes. I don't commute daily, but once a month it is useful to meet in person. London is a hub for many people.
Vaud said:
Nope. Trains carry huge capacity into densely packed cities.
Take Leeds to London - 8 carriages (?) - 60 people in each - so 480 capacity - there is no way that autonomous vehicles can replace that density or speed.
We need a mix.
That only works if 480 people want to travel from one specific location to another specific location on a specific day at a specific time and are able to pay the high fare cost. Most people live nowhere near the relevant starting point and their final destination is nowhere near the terminus. What's more they often want to go at times when no train is available. A car is always at least 25% occupied but a train/coach/bus can be 0% occupied and is often less than 25% occupied. A car leaves from your home and arrives at your destination on the day of your choosing and at the correct time - traffic notwithstanding.Take Leeds to London - 8 carriages (?) - 60 people in each - so 480 capacity - there is no way that autonomous vehicles can replace that density or speed.
We need a mix.
motco said:
That only works if 480 people want to travel from one specific location to another specific location on a specific day at a specific time and are able to pay the high fare cost. Most people live nowhere near the relevant starting point and their final destination is nowhere near the terminus. What's more they often want to go at times when no train is available. A car is always at least 25% occupied but a train/coach/bus can be 0% occupied and is often less than 25% occupied. A car leaves from your home and arrives at your destination on the day of your choosing and at the correct time - traffic notwithstanding.
Yes, I know how trains work. Large scale capacity is fairly predictable; hub and spoke is pretty well proven to be the most efficient; ditto with airlines.
I really hope HS2 is scrapped. The sooner the better. And the money should be spent on national infrastructure including improving the railways.
If the £100bn HS2 will likely cost was invested solely in the existing rail network, does anyone know what the impact would be? New trains on all lines with increased capacity? Full electrification?
In a time of austerity it seems ridiculous to be spending so much on a single train line with limited benefits.
If the £100bn HS2 will likely cost was invested solely in the existing rail network, does anyone know what the impact would be? New trains on all lines with increased capacity? Full electrification?
In a time of austerity it seems ridiculous to be spending so much on a single train line with limited benefits.
CoolHands said:
It’s going to regenerate and reenergise lots of areas. Provide tonnes of jobs just like cross rail. I hope it continues.
It’s going to destroy a lot of rural areas, lead to loads of job losses and create unnecessary disturbance and transport difficulties for loads of rural communities.I hope it gets stopped.
jonnyb said:
CoolHands said:
It’s going to regenerate and reenergise lots of areas. Provide tonnes of jobs just like cross rail. I hope it continues.
It’s going to destroy a lot of rural areas, lead to loads of job losses and create unnecessary disturbance and transport difficulties for loads of rural communities.I hope it gets stopped.
Vaud said:
V8 Fettler said:
Crazy waste of money, should be building transport routes for the 21st century and beyond; designed for flexible, automated electric vehicles.
Nope. Trains carry huge capacity into densely packed cities.Take Leeds to London - 8 carriages (?) - 60 people in each - so 480 capacity - there is no way that autonomous vehicles can replace that density or speed.
We need a mix.
wiggy001 said:
If the £100bn HS2 will likely cost was invested solely in the existing rail network, does anyone know what the impact would be? New trains on all lines with increased capacity? Full electrification?
From a purely selfish position, about £3-5Bn would electrify and modernise the South Wales rail network. That would include the planned Cardiff Valley line electrification, a new route between Swansea and Cardiff, a new through-station in Swansea, and converting the Neath Valley line to passenger rail. Several new stations would also be included in the Cardiff commuter belt.All of which would go some way to decreasing the bottle neck on the M4.
Vaud said:
I agree completely. I work from home and 99% of interactions are by voice/video/collaborative online tools. My annual mileage is about 4k by car, all nursery drops and then holidays.
This is the justification for NOT building it.HS2 is best part of 10 years away, to solve issues of the present.
The world moves on, the "demand" for it will have all but evaporated by the time its open. The move to working from home or more locally will continue.
Some of the commuter lines into london are seeing this already with a drop off in the number of people who commute 5 days a week. Its a tend thats likely to gather pace, not reverse.
monkfish1 said:
Vaud said:
I agree completely. I work from home and 99% of interactions are by voice/video/collaborative online tools. My annual mileage is about 4k by car, all nursery drops and then holidays.
This is the justification for NOT building it.HS2 is best part of 10 years away, to solve issues of the present.
The world moves on, the "demand" for it will have all but evaporated by the time its open. The move to working from home or more locally will continue.
Some of the commuter lines into london are seeing this already with a drop off in the number of people who commute 5 days a week. Its a tend thats likely to gather pace, not reverse.
monkfish1 said:
This is the justification for NOT building it.
HS2 is best part of 10 years away, to solve issues of the present.
The world moves on, the "demand" for it will have all but evaporated by the time its open. The move to working from home or more locally will continue.
Some of the commuter lines into london are seeing this already with a drop off in the number of people who commute 5 days a week. Its a tend thats likely to gather pace, not reverse.
The counter to that is that the better connected the North is, the easier it is to redistribute services (e.g. civil service) from London.HS2 is best part of 10 years away, to solve issues of the present.
The world moves on, the "demand" for it will have all but evaporated by the time its open. The move to working from home or more locally will continue.
Some of the commuter lines into london are seeing this already with a drop off in the number of people who commute 5 days a week. Its a tend thats likely to gather pace, not reverse.
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