UKIP - The Future - Volume 4

[Zetec-S]

Deptford Draylons said:

Zetec-S said:

Deptford Draylons said:

Seems that 52% of those who could be arsed to vote were more than happy to get the chance to express their opinion. If it was the reckless risk as being presented by Derek, the result would be different.
Shame that when everyone thought the result was a done deal for remain, lots of people were quite happy for a referendum to destroy any ideas of leaving, plus of course forgetting the caveat of needing a second referendum should the 'right ' result not have been achieved.
It's also a bit pompous to be for against one referendum after you didn't get the result you wanted, but then say there must be another that will be a good thing, so long as the right result is achieved .

Trouble with referendums (especially when there's not a great deal in it) is that you always get calls from the losing side to hold another.

So some 'remoaners' want another. If the leave campaign had lost they wouldn't have packed up and gone home, they'd keep banging on. Just like the SNP do with independence. Unless the political situation changes massively, they'll come a point when they get their way, purely through a campaign of attrition.

Ukip would still be shouting about another referendum , sure. I would have said their vote share would still collapse as the majority of the country would have seen that chance gone and just carried on as the day before the vote. There would have been a week of moaning from leavers and then pretty much forgotten about already.

[alfie2244]

Having been a member of the Referendum party and wanting a referendum 20 years ago I think it only right and proper there is another Brexit referendum...........................in 20 years time that is

[Deptford Draylons]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Deptford Draylons said:

Eddie Strohacker said:

No idea who you're talking about with this second referendum schtick, but it isn't me. I'm only concerned with your aggressive response to someone else that contains an obvious & glaring weakness.

I'll make it simple. The offer of a referendum wasn't regard as risking everyone's future.

It's OK, I was degree educated, you can make it as complicated as you fell necessary, however, I note a coherent sentence is a stretch and your opinion too, which is just that. So, Billy bks leaves the room then.

But hey, let's ask the high priest what he thought such a tight result would engender, shall we?



http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage...

Edited by Eddie Strohacker on Friday 5th May 16:05

Oh, looks like I touched a nerve ?
It's obviously clear a vast number of people didn't regard it as recklessly risking everyone's future, so too parliament who voted for a referendum. To present it as otherwise is rubbish.

So Ukip would have still campaigned on, so what ? As I've already said, they would be alone on the sidelines with a much reduced supporter base shouting alone while the rest of the country just carried on. A week of moaning and this forum would barely be talking about.

[Zetec-S]

Deptford Draylons said:

So Ukip would have still campaigned on, so what ? As I've already said, they would be alone on the sidelines with a much reduced supporter base shouting alone while the rest of the country just carried on. A week of moaning and this forum would barely be talking about.

A bit like the SNP after they lost the Independence referendum...?

[Deptford Draylons]

Dindoit said:

Deptford Draylons said:

It's also a bit pompous to be for against one referendum after you didn't get the result you wanted, but then say there must be another that will be a good thing, so long as the right result is achieved .

"In a 52-48 referendum, this would be unfinished business by a long way." Nigel Farage, May 2016

eta beaten to it but the hypocrisy is worth repeating

What would he have been able to do ? Campaign on with a reduced supporter base as the rest of the country moves on and thinks its done. Parliament would have long moved on already. I'm not sure what point you have to say he would still campaign.

[Eddie Strohacker]

Deptford Draylons said:

Oh, looks like I touched a nerve ?
It's obviously clear a vast number of people didn't regard it as recklessly risking everyone's future, so too parliament who voted for a referendum. To present it as otherwise is rubbish.

So Ukip would have still campaigned on, so what ? As I've already said, they would be alone on the sidelines with a much reduced supporter base shouting alone while the rest of the country just carried on. A week of moaning and this forum would barely be talking about.

Nope, In fact I'm laughing at the preposterous assertion you're persisting with about leavers v remainers. And if you really believe 4% is a 'vast' majority, I have some beans you might be interested in purchasing.

[BlackLabel]

Derek Smith said:

The real clown was Cameron. Fearing for his own future he risked that of everyone's. And realising what he'd done, he ran away.

Good to see you back. I've missed you. To quote #III:

Michael Corleone: Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in.

I'm convinced Cameron thought there would be no chance of a Tory majority in 2015 and therefore he could drop the referendum promise and blame coalition politics for it all. Unfortunately for him he was a victim of his own success.

I guess we'll never know for sure though.

[Deptford Draylons]

Zetec-S said:

Deptford Draylons said:

So Ukip would have still campaigned on, so what ? As I've already said, they would be alone on the sidelines with a much reduced supporter base shouting alone while the rest of the country just carried on. A week of moaning and this forum would barely be talking about.

A bit like the SNP after they lost the Independence referendum...?

Not really, Ukip has no MPs ( although did have one after the vote ) unlike the 50 odd for the SNP. The SNP are a single issue party like Ukip with all but a couple of missed seats.
People keep making much of Farage saying it would be unfinished business, but not seemingly capable of saying what that would mean. For me it means they would be the equivalent of those guys on Oxford Street with the ' end of the world is nigh' signs while everyone else walks by.

[Deptford Draylons]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Deptford Draylons said:

Oh, looks like I touched a nerve ?
It's obviously clear a vast number of people didn't regard it as recklessly risking everyone's future, so too parliament who voted for a referendum. To present it as otherwise is rubbish.

So Ukip would have still campaigned on, so what ? As I've already said, they would be alone on the sidelines with a much reduced supporter base shouting alone while the rest of the country just carried on. A week of moaning and this forum would barely be talking about.

Nope, In fact I'm laughing at the preposterous assertion you're persisting with about leavers v remainers. And if you really believe 4% is a 'vast' majority, I have some beans you might be interested in purchasing.

This really isn't that hard. The claim Cameron risked everyone's future ( focus on the 'everyone's' part ) clearly can't be true when 17 million or so the public and the majority of Parliament voted thinking this not to be the case.

[MarshPhantom]

Deptford Draylons said:

Eddie Strohacker said:

No idea who you're talking about with this second referendum schtick, but it isn't me. I'm only concerned with your aggressive response to someone else that contains an obvious & glaring weakness.

I'll make it simple. The offer of a referendum wasn't regard as risking everyone's future.

Cameron planned the Referendum because he didn't think they could lose. Unfortunately this time around Cameron and The Tories didn't have the vast majority of the Press, Sky News on his side.

A lot of Remain voters didn't vote because they'd been convinced Leave were going to lose by a good margin. I wonder why that was?

[Kermit power]

Deptford Draylons said:

Eddie Strohacker said:

Deptford Draylons said:

Oh, looks like I touched a nerve ?
It's obviously clear a vast number of people didn't regard it as recklessly risking everyone's future, so too parliament who voted for a referendum. To present it as otherwise is rubbish.

So Ukip would have still campaigned on, so what ? As I've already said, they would be alone on the sidelines with a much reduced supporter base shouting alone while the rest of the country just carried on. A week of moaning and this forum would barely be talking about.

Nope, In fact I'm laughing at the preposterous assertion you're persisting with about leavers v remainers. And if you really believe 4% is a 'vast' majority, I have some beans you might be interested in purchasing.

This really isn't that hard. The claim Cameron risked everyone's future ( focus on the 'everyone's' part ) clearly can't be true when 17 million or so the public and the majority of Parliament voted thinking this not to be the case.

If it's really not hard, how come it's confusing you?

If you said that 17 million people and the majority of parliament decided it was a risk worth taking, then I'd wholeheartedly agree with you, but that's not the same as them deciding it's not a risk.

Frankly, to decide that there was NO risk in leaving the EU, you'd have to be absolutely barking!

[alfie2244]

MarshPhantom said:

Cameron planned the Referendum because he didn't think they could lose. Unfortunately this time around Cameron and The Tories didn't have the vast majority of the Press, Sky News on his side.

A lot of Remain voters didn't vote because they'd been convinced Leave were going to lose by a good margin. I wonder why that was?

Cor blimey guvnor you can half come up with some fantasy stories you can....we are leaving the Ponzi scheme and the sooner you accept it and get over it the better it will be for your health..... btw did you vote?

[Dindoit]

Deptford Draylons said:

A week of moaning and this forum would barely be talking about.

[Deptford Draylons]

Kermit power said:

Deptford Draylons said:

Eddie Strohacker said:

Deptford Draylons said:

Oh, looks like I touched a nerve ?
It's obviously clear a vast number of people didn't regard it as recklessly risking everyone's future, so too parliament who voted for a referendum. To present it as otherwise is rubbish.

So Ukip would have still campaigned on, so what ? As I've already said, they would be alone on the sidelines with a much reduced supporter base shouting alone while the rest of the country just carried on. A week of moaning and this forum would barely be talking about.

Nope, In fact I'm laughing at the preposterous assertion you're persisting with about leavers v remainers. And if you really believe 4% is a 'vast' majority, I have some beans you might be interested in purchasing.

This really isn't that hard. The claim Cameron risked everyone's future ( focus on the 'everyone's' part ) clearly can't be true when 17 million or so the public and the majority of Parliament voted thinking this not to be the case.

If it's really not hard, how come it's confusing you?

If you said that 17 million people and the majority of parliament decided it was a risk worth taking, then I'd wholeheartedly agree with you, but that's not the same as them deciding it's not a risk.

Frankly, to decide that there was NO risk in leaving the EU, you'd have to be absolutely barking!

The point made was it was reckless and risking everyone's future by holding a referendum. If you voted for a referendum and voted to leave, it seems you were pretty happy to have that choice and then voted thinking it was overall better to leave. There was some opposition to a referendum after it was approved by parliament with a majority, but of course its increased after the ' wrong' result was given.....

[Eddie Strohacker]

Deptford Draylons said:

The point made was it was reckless and risking everyone's future by holding a referendum. If you voted for a referendum and voted to leave, it seems you were pretty happy to have that choice and then voted thinking it was overall better to leave. There was some opposition to a referendum after it was approved by parliament with a majority, but of course its increased after the ' wrong' result was given.....

Not by me. no idea why you keep quoting me on that whilst weirdly claiming that leave would moan for a week & walk away from it, yet remain would be clamouring for ref.2 forever & a day.

Honestly, you lot are the worst winners ever. It's done, get over it etc. etc.

[Deptford Draylons]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Deptford Draylons said:

The point made was it was reckless and risking everyone's future by holding a referendum. If you voted for a referendum and voted to leave, it seems you were pretty happy to have that choice and then voted thinking it was overall better to leave. There was some opposition to a referendum after it was approved by parliament with a majority, but of course its increased after the ' wrong' result was given.....

Not by me. no idea why you keep quoting me on that whilst weirdly claiming that leave would moan for a week & walk away from it, yet remain would be clamouring for ref.2 forever & a day.

Honestly, you lot are the worst winners ever. It's done, get over it etc. etc.

It was Derek's point which you jumped in on when I said it was bks. Have you forgotten this already ?
Derek may have thought Cameron needlessly risked his future, but I did not think his risked my future and didn't wish to be lumped in to one group. If I want the choice of a referendum, that's up to me and obviously don't regard being given that vote as a risk. You are free to argue a secondary point that the way I voted presents a risk, as Kermit the Frog has got all mixed up with.

[Derek Smith]

Deptford Draylons said:

Derek Smith said:

The real clown was Cameron. Fearing for his own future he risked that of everyone's. And realising what he'd done, he ran away.

Risked that of everyone's ? The result says you maybe speaking billy bks.

There's nothing like a reasoned and sensible argument and your post was nothing like a reasoned argument.

[Deptford Draylons]

Derek Smith said:

Deptford Draylons said:

Derek Smith said:

The real clown was Cameron. Fearing for his own future he risked that of everyone's. And realising what he'd done, he ran away.

Risked that of everyone's ? The result says you maybe speaking billy bks.

There's nothing like a reasoned and sensible argument and your post was nothing like a reasoned argument.

Seemed a bit late after sweeping statement rubbish. All you had to say was that your are pissed you feel he risked your future.

[Derek Smith]

Deptford Draylons said:

Derek Smith said:

Deptford Draylons said:

Derek Smith said:

The real clown was Cameron. Fearing for his own future he risked that of everyone's. And realising what he'd done, he ran away.

Risked that of everyone's ? The result says you maybe speaking billy .

There's nothing like a reasoned and sensible argument and your post was nothing like a reasoned argument.

Seemed a bit late after sweeping statement rubbish. All you had to say was that your are pissed you feel he risked your future.

OK, I’ll keep it as simple as I can.

I criticised Cameron. No one else. Let’s look at what the clown did.

He obviously did not want to leave the EU but he felt that by promising a vote on it he would get more votes. So he went for party political advantage. He’s not the first PM to do so, but that doesn’t make him any the less culpable.

Then, having got in, knowing that he had to live up to his promise, he did nothing with regards planning. There were no tactics, no strategy, no salting of the battlefield, no looking for allies: he went into the referendum convinced a stay vote would result despite the result not being predictable.

That is clownish behaviour for the leader of the country and, not only that, it is a risk to the interests of this country.

Then, when leave was the only option, he decided that the mess he had left should be cleared up by someone else.

He risked your future, he risked that of me and mine, by having no plan.

Is that clear enough?

So if you are going to argue with me then argue on the point I raised. Cameron is a clown.

He ignored basic leadership principles. That is appalling for a person in his position.

What I said must have been clear to anyone with the meanest intelligence; he is more culpable than Farage.

[Deptford Draylons]

Derek Smith said:

Deptford Draylons said:

Derek Smith said:

Deptford Draylons said:

Derek Smith said:

The real clown was Cameron. Fearing for his own future he risked that of everyone's. And realising what he'd done, he ran away.

Risked that of everyone's ? The result says you maybe speaking billy .

There's nothing like a reasoned and sensible argument and your post was nothing like a reasoned argument.

Seemed a bit late after sweeping statement rubbish. All you had to say was that your are pissed you feel he risked your future.

OK, I’ll keep it as simple as I can.

I criticised Cameron. No one else. Let’s look at what the clown did.

He obviously did not want to leave the EU but he felt that by promising a vote on it he would get more votes. So he went for party political advantage. He’s not the first PM to do so, but that doesn’t make him any the less culpable.

Then, having got in, knowing that he had to live up to his promise, he did nothing with regards planning. There were no tactics, no strategy, no salting of the battlefield, no looking for allies: he went into the referendum convinced a stay vote would result despite the result not being predictable.

That is clownish behaviour for the leader of the country and, not only that, it is a risk to the interests of this country.

Then, when leave was the only option, he decided that the mess he had left should be cleared up by someone else.

He risked your future, he risked that of me and mine, by having no plan.

Is that clear enough?

So if you are going to argue with me then argue on the point I raised. Cameron is a clown.

He ignored basic leadership principles. That is appalling for a person in his position.

What I said must have been clear to anyone with the meanest intelligence; he is more culpable than Farage.

You're still arguing that by giving me what I wanted ( the referendum ) he risked my future. I don't feel that way , but you do. It's really that simple.
I actually agree with you he did it because he was trying to be too clever by half and killing the EU question in the country ( growing Ukip support ) and the age old question in his own party in which he thought he'd kill the two birds with one stone.
It still seems a bit of a stretch to tell me he risked my future but giving me exactly what I wanted, as I don't much care how I got it, more just that I did. As I said, speak for yourself on that one, although I get why you are angry you feel he risked YOUR future.