Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

[simoid]

Tram also fails to beat fat man on bike.

[r11co]

///ajd said:

They chose to wear the roses.

They say it was to celebrate the "little rose of scotland" in a poem by a bloke from the past.

The ScotNat MPs will have been told to wear it, with little understanding of its true significance.

As a stunt it should be ranked with 'Ed's Stone' as an example of poor judgement.

[Welshbeef]

simoid said:

DocJock said:

Worse still, 300% over budget and only delivering part of the promised infrastructure.

At least the Chunnel doesn't stop at Guernsey

£1 billion that's a huge amount to spend on transport for Scotland - would be good to know the total transport budget for Scotland

That's 5x the support the Govt gave the South West when there was horrendous flooding and ruining roads houses etc.

Given there is a bus service to the same destinations I'm assuming there was chronic under capacity originally?



Agree with another earlier why on earth didn't they spend £1billion for a railway line to the airport and link up all of Scotland so that they can get there instead it's bus or tram which don't stop at a railway station .... Lugging luggage for hols all over the city with kids in tow no thanks. Car it is - maybe they are pro after all.

[James P]

Edinburger said:

And... lots of huge engineering projects go over budget, over deadlines, etc. All over the world. Channel Tunnel was just one example. C'est la vie. Let's not be getting a semi just because you can have a dig at a Scottish project, eh?

I didn't have a dig at anything. As has been eloquently pointed out, the projects are not remotely comparable. Why do you think one justifies the other?

[Greedydog]

James P said:

Edinburger said:

And... lots of huge engineering projects go over budget, over deadlines, etc. All over the world. Channel Tunnel was just one example. C'est la vie. Let's not be getting a semi just because you can have a dig at a Scottish project, eh?

I didn't have a dig at anything. As has been eloquently pointed out, the projects are not remotely comparable. Why do you think one justifies the other?

I'm having a dig, not because it was a Scottish project (I'm Scottish BTW) but because it was a disgrace. I would be saying the same if I was living in any other city in the UK and saw local monies being poured away in a similar manner. Time to lose the chip.

[Gecko1978]

James P said:

Edinburger said:

And... lots of huge engineering projects go over budget, over deadlines, etc. All over the world. Channel Tunnel was just one example. C'est la vie. Let's not be getting a semi just because you can have a dig at a Scottish project, eh?

I didn't have a dig at anything. As has been eloquently pointed out, the projects are not remotely comparable. Why do you think one justifies the other?

they don't think that they hope others will though. Channel Tunnel, largets enginering project in the world doing something that had never been done before.Tram to the airport, something thats been technologically feasable for what 150 years, except this one did not go to it intended destination....so like the channel tunnel finishing a mile or so off the coast.....

yeah exactly the same and comparible

[simoid]

Welshbeef said:

£1 billion that's a huge amount to spend on transport for Scotland - would be good to know the total transport budget for Scotland

That's 5x the support the Govt gave the South West when there was horrendous flooding and ruining roads houses etc.

Given there is a bus service to the same destinations I'm assuming there was chronic under capacity originally?



Agree with another earlier why on earth didn't they spend £1billion for a railway line to the airport and link up all of Scotland so that they can get there instead it's bus or tram which don't stop at a railway station .... Lugging luggage for hols all over the city with kids in tow no thanks. Car it is - maybe they are pro after all.

I believe a main advantage of the tram was that it was "off road" mostly once it's away from the city centre so it's not taking up traffic space.

However, much of the tram route is still on road, and it even uses a guided bus way built only a few years ago, therefore putting more buses back on the road

If it was my project I'd've just built an expressway for buses on the tram route.

Re. The Scottish transport budget - there's been billions and billions invested in recent years:
Forth Bridge
Trams
M74 extension (most expensive motorway or close to it?)
Borders railway
New M80
Etc

[Edinburger]

simoid said:

Welshbeef said:

£1 billion that's a huge amount to spend on transport for Scotland - would be good to know the total transport budget for Scotland

That's 5x the support the Govt gave the South West when there was horrendous flooding and ruining roads houses etc.

Given there is a bus service to the same destinations I'm assuming there was chronic under capacity originally?



Agree with another earlier why on earth didn't they spend £1billion for a railway line to the airport and link up all of Scotland so that they can get there instead it's bus or tram which don't stop at a railway station .... Lugging luggage for hols all over the city with kids in tow no thanks. Car it is - maybe they are pro after all.

I believe a main advantage of the tram was that it was "off road" mostly once it's away from the city centre so it's not taking up traffic space.

However, much of the tram route is still on road, and it even uses a guided bus way built only a few years ago, therefore putting more buses back on the road

If it was my project I'd've just built an expressway for buses on the tram route.

Re. The Scottish transport budget - there's been billions and billions invested in recent years:
Forth Bridge
Trams
M74 extension (most expensive motorway or close to it?)
Borders railway
New M80
Etc

I'll reply to the other posts shortly, but yours stuck out - can you tell me why you think each of those projects was "wasted" money?

You do still live in Scotland, yeah?

[Strocky]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

Proposed projected infrastructure spend of £200Bn in the UK in total from the last coalition government

I wonder how much was actually spent in the end and what was the geographical share?

[Strocky]

simoid said:

Tram also fails to beat fat man on bike.

Flippant point as the Tram infrastructure fuds should have been turned upside down and shaken for change for the overspend, but how many travelers flying out of the country will have no bags or be able to arrive sweaty at their meeting?

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

I'll reply to the other posts shortly, but yours stuck out - can you tell me why you think each of those projects was "wasted" money?

You do still live in Scotland, yeah?

Come again...? I didn't say anything about wasted money.

That's none of your concern, and in any case I try to be as objective as possible.

[r11co]

Edinburger said:

I'll reply to the other posts shortly, but yours stuck out - can you tell me why you think each of those projects was "wasted" money?

He didn't say they were. Nice straw-man argument.

[simoid]

Strocky said:

simoid said:

Tram also fails to beat fat man on bike.

Flippant point as the Tram infrastructure fuds should have been turned upside down and shaken for change for the overspend, but how many travelers flying out of the country will have no bags or be able to arrive sweaty at their meeting?

I wasn't making the point that travellers flying out of the country should use a bicycle. It was to illustrate that, although the trams have a dedicated route costing hundred of millions of pounds, they can be outperformed by the previously available means.

[///ajd]

Strocky said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

Proposed projected infrastructure spend of £200Bn in the UK in total from the last coalition government

I wonder how much was actually spent in the end and what was the geographical share?

Here is a clue Strocky.

http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/news/regeneration/...

"In the West Midlands, spending on transport is £202 per person – compared to £519 in Scotland."

Are you doing well enough out of the UK, or do you realy think you deserve more/better?

Careful what you wish for!

There is a real appetite to finally bin the barnett - and you can thank no one other than Alex and the SNP for making it happen.

[technodup]

simoid said:

M74 extension (most expensive motorway or close to it?)

Wait, I'll not have anything said against my favourite bit of motorway. Smooth, empty and allows me to avoid the Kingston Bridge on many journeys home. Although why they didn't join it up to the bridge at the road to nowhere is anyone's guess.

As for the trams, they're an unmitigated disaster. How many businesses failed or suffered along the route as the work was being done? I've a client in Shandwick place and the last time I was through it was like a ghost town.

[r11co]

technodup said:

Although why they didn't join it up to the bridge at the road to nowhere is anyone's guess.

Probably something to do with the converted flats they built opposite the 'ski-ramps' on West Street, or maybe that the real ring-road is still unfinished and was suppose to join up with the other road to nowhere at the top of High Street, with the M74 connecting just south of Glasgow Green.

Edited by r11co on Friday 29th May 16:00

[Edinburger]

technodup said:

simoid said:

M74 extension (most expensive motorway or close to it?)

Wait, I'll not have anything said against my favourite bit of motorway. Smooth, empty and allows me to avoid the Kingston Bridge on many journeys home. Although why they didn't join it up to the bridge at the road to nowhere is anyone's guess.

As for the trams, they're an unmitigated disaster. How many businesses failed or suffered along the route as the work was being done? I've a client in Shandwick place and the last time I was through it was like a ghost town.

Ghost town? I was in Shandwick Place on Wednesday and it was heaving!

A lot of businesses suffered during the prep work but that was mainly down Leith Walk IIRC. Weren't the compensated to some degree by tax rebates or similar? Don't remember the details.

[Edinburger]

///ajd said:

Strocky said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

Proposed projected infrastructure spend of £200Bn in the UK in total from the last coalition government

I wonder how much was actually spent in the end and what was the geographical share?

Here is a clue Strocky.

http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/news/regeneration/...

"In the West Midlands, spending on transport is £202 per person – compared to £519 in Scotland."

Are you doing well enough out of the UK, or do you realy think you deserve more/better?

Careful what you wish for!

There is a real appetite to finally bin the barnett - and you can thank no one other than Alex and the SNP for making it happen.

But remember there's a lot more land in Scotland so that's many more miles of roads to build and maintain.

Now where's my suit of armour gone?!

[Edinburger]

simoid said:

Strocky said:

simoid said:

Tram also fails to beat fat man on bike.

Flippant point as the Tram infrastructure fuds should have been turned upside down and shaken for change for the overspend, but how many travelers flying out of the country will have no bags or be able to arrive sweaty at their meeting?

I wasn't making the point that travellers flying out of the country should use a bicycle. It was to illustrate that, although the trams have a dedicated route costing hundred of millions of pounds, they can be outperformed by the previously available means.

Let's be pragmatic, simoid.

Of course some can be outperformed by alternative means. No public transport system in the world caters for all residents' journies to every destination equally. That's just daft.

But the tram is designed to offer an alternaive option for the many people who commute to centre of Edinburgh, or South Gyle, or Gogarburn, or wherever. As well as travellers to/from the airport.

Building a brand new tracked transport system in any old city is never easy. In my view, the trams are a welcome addition to Edinburgh. It's a fresh and cosmopolitian approach to a 21st century challenge.

Vistors like them, commuters like them, shoppers like them. They're clean, inexpensive and convenient.

No point harping on about the cost - that's money spent. Move on. Look forward.

[Edinburger]

simoid said:

Edinburger said:

I'll reply to the other posts shortly, but yours stuck out - can you tell me why you think each of those projects was "wasted" money?

You do still live in Scotland, yeah?

Come again...? I didn't say anything about wasted money.

That's none of your concern, and in any case I try to be as objective as possible.

Whoops - my mistook. I sped-read your post and wrongly thought you were complaining about that list of projects too.

So you never use the tram?