Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 7

[andy_s]

gadgetmac said:

andy_s said:

gadgetmac said:

Seriously?

Independence from one partner doesn't mean you don't want ANY partner. Sturgeon and her followers just don't want England as their partner.

A woman who wants a divorce from her husband will still want that independence in order to seek out another husband and thats her choice to make. It's not the husbands right to say that she should have no other husbands in the future.

Thinking levels are plummeting since the referendum.

And Brussels is a better partner than Westminster? Led by an autonomous, un-elected cabal who wouldn't want Scotland anyway? Really?

But that would be THEIR choice.

English posters on here seem to have a problem with the term 'their choice'. But didn't seem to have the same problem with the term 'our choice' some days ago.

I live in Scotland and have a Scottish family. I am actually talking about OUR choice.

[gadgetmac]

andy_s said:

gadgetmac said:

andy_s said:

gadgetmac said:

Seriously?

Independence from one partner doesn't mean you don't want ANY partner. Sturgeon and her followers just don't want England as their partner.

A woman who wants a divorce from her husband will still want that independence in order to seek out another husband and thats her choice to make. It's not the husbands right to say that she should have no other husbands in the future.

Thinking levels are plummeting since the referendum.

And Brussels is a better partner than Westminster? Led by an autonomous, un-elected cabal who wouldn't want Scotland anyway? Really?

But that would be THEIR choice.

English posters on here seem to have a problem with the term 'their choice'. But didn't seem to have the same problem with the term 'our choice' some days ago.

I live in Scotland and have a Scottish family. I am actually talking about OUR choice.

Yes, YOU'RE choice. Well, you and your countrymens.

[stevemiller]

andy_s said:

That's not at all analogous. Think about it.

It is to me the EU has changed. If Scotland seek to join /stay in the EU through a second Independence vote to vote for it now you would not be joining the same entity as Thursday. I would add that this would only be a component part of the argument. I am a Scot living in England so I can only comment and rightly not take part.

Edited by stevemiller on Sunday 26th June 15:32

[ralphrj]

technodup said:

Technically it doesn't. But what exactly is the point of having a referendum if the government doesn't act on it? And if it doesn't then what does that say about our democracy?

I think you're clutching at straws here. Sturgeon's doing the same, or acting like it.

The question was asked as to how Sturgeon might hope to block the UK exiting the EU.

I explained how she might try to use a legal mechanism to do it. I did not (and do not) agree that it would be a fair way to act. My only point was how that legal mechanism could work.

Somebody asked a question and I answered it with an explanation rather than an opinion. I have no idea how that makes me "clutching at straws".

[gadgetmac]

technodup said:

ou remember we had a referendum just 20 months ago? Where we made OUR choice?

The choice that was for a generation?

I'm fking sick of the SNP, Sturgeon, Salmond and their rag tag bunch of deluded fknugget supporters. No means no. Go away, take some time, have a think and come back to us in a decade. Until then fk off.

Well Edinburger a couple of pages back plus others on here and members of my family who all voted to remain part of the UK disagree with you. Only a referendum can settle it

[DocJock]

A referendum DID settle it.

Scotland voted to stay as part of the entity which just voted to leave the EU.

[EddieSteadyGo]

Garvin said:

HD Adam said:

Looks like Wee Jimmy has just been told exactly the same as what was said during the Indy Ref.

Scotland will have to apply to join and meet conditions.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3660320/NO...

Humiliated my arse. This suits Ms Sturgeon 'down to the ground'. She knows there is no fiscal basis for another referendum and that this would be the response of the EU but it demonstrates to her gullible band of nationalist supporters that she is seemingly doing her best for them and that, as usual, it is somebody else's fault that is preventing her achieving the objective.

Astutely observed Garvin. This is designed to be red meat for her supporters rather than a sound proposal.

[technodup]

gadgetmac said:

Well Edinburger a couple of pages back plus others on here and members of my family who all voted to remain part of the UK disagree with you. Only a referendum can settle it

Edinburger's been discredited on here more than anyone else. He doesn't know what he thinks.

And then what? Let's say the SNP wins next time. Do we get another go? Because that seems to be the thinking after these two, that the results aren't right. Where does it end? And if we don't, why not? Is the only right result and binding referendum the one YOU win?

We need to draw a line in the sand here. We've had two in two years. We've had the results. Let's have a period where we get back to 'normal', see what it's like and go from there. Like I said before it'll give Sturgeon time to cobble together a plan, because at the minute she's floundering all over the place. Her tone is strong and decisive sounding, disguising the fact there is no substance. We can see through it.

[glazbagun]

davepoth said:

glazbagun said:

Wait, there someone who is leading? Who?

The British public.

The public? Are you serious? The public are eating each other.

We have a headless government "ruling" with just over a third of the popular vote and no plan whatsoever who just nuked their manifesto pledges, an opposition leader with great support in his party and yet no support in parliament who is about to prove that he can be stabbed in the back, thrown under a bus and still win a leadership election.

All in an England and Wales divided along metropolitan lines and the youngest and oldest voting against each other...

Theres no leadership there, just a maelstrom. Ironically, the Scottish Parliament with the embattled Sturgeon and resurgent Ruth Davidson both in line with the referendum result in the areas they represent are looking to be the more stable government here.

[anonymous-user]

Sturgeon's a lightweight, people. She cant even handle a TV discussion with Boris.
You've got to question what kind of independence she's after and why she wants it if she's anti UK and pro EU. A UK that has devolved power to Scotland and then given a referendum to the Scots, then an EU that seeks to take power and self-determination away through 'ever closer union'.

[Cobnapint]

Before the vote back in 2014, both sides said they'd respect the outcome of the Scottish indy-ref.

Guess which side didn't respect the outcome.


This morning, NS said she respected the outcome of the EU referendum, and then carried on making stloads of statements clearly indicating - did she fk.

She makes my skin crawl. Especially when she said it was her duty as First Minister to protect Scotland's interests by maintaining ties with the EU.

Just one question, how the stting hell does she actually KNOW that it'll be better for Scotland to be shackled to the EU. On what evidence is she making that claim?

[glazbagun]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

IMO she's a self serving parasite like most politicians, skilled at keeping herself in a nexus, exploiting political differences and little more.

I don't personally think she or Alex truly want independence and the responsibility that would come with it- rather like Boris with the result he's got, I think there'd be an "Oh st" moment if they ever got what they wanted.

I've long felt that in indyref they wanted Devo Max and Cameron removed it in the same way he removed PR from the Lib Dem referendum. He just hadn't counted on the strength of anti-establishment feeling.

[technodup]

Cobnapint said:

evidence

Evidence?

That's for plebs. She just knows.

[anonymous-user]

glazbagun said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I don't personally think she or Alex truly want independence and the responsibility that would come with it

Of course not. Who will they 'blame' for everything if they actually got what the wanted.

I always though fat Alex would resign (like he did after it) if we did vote leave in the 2014 vote, in a way to elude any blame that was attached to it if it went horribly wrong. "Oh it's not my fault it's the new governments fault" and he would remain some paragon as the 'King of Scotland' in his fat deluded head.

[Edinburger]

DocJock said:

A referendum DID settle it.

Scotland voted to stay as part of the entity which just voted to leave the EU.

Settled? The 3,311,965 people who have signed the petition think otherwise! That's the petition for the Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.

Too close to be decisive? Not sure how I feel about that.

[Jockman]

Edinburger said:

DocJock said:

A referendum DID settle it.

Scotland voted to stay as part of the entity which just voted to leave the EU.

Settled? The 3,311,965 people who have signed the petition think otherwise! That's the petition for the Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.

Too close to be decisive? Not sure how I feel about that.

Is this the petition that is under Police investigation or another one?

Edit: not Police.

Edited by Jockman on Sunday 26th June 17:33

[andy_s]

Edinburger said:

Settled? The 3,311,965 people who have signed the petition think otherwise! That's the petition for the Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.

Too close to be decisive? Not sure how I feel about that.

The numbers can go up to 16m votes before it gets meaningful. The referendum was unconditional.
Should we apply the same figures to the next Scottish Independence referendum before it is meaningful also...?

[davepoth]

glazbagun said:

davepoth said:

glazbagun said:

Wait, there someone who is leading? Who?

The British public.

The public? Are you serious? The public are eating each other.

Yes, the public. The vote caught everyone - the "experts", the government, the markets, the pollsters, the bookies, the EU - on the hop, and they're desperately trying to catch up, to understand how and why they were so wrong about what the country was thinking.

[Troubleatmill]

Edinburger said:

DocJock said:

A referendum DID settle it.

Scotland voted to stay as part of the entity which just voted to leave the EU.

Settled? The 3,311,965 people who have signed the petition think otherwise! That's the petition for the Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.

Too close to be decisive? Not sure how I feel about that.

Urm...
Over 40,000 people from the Vatican have signed the petition. Total Population is around 450.
Over 20,000 people from North Korea have signed the petition.


Now... a really sharp guy like you.... do you think it is legit - or arse gravy?

And one guy on Reddit - has admitted to hacking the site- and keeps adding signatories.
IIRC - he provided some proof this morning.

IIRC2 - Someone posted up it was closer to 360,000 people signed the petition without the aid of spam bots.

[General Price]

A wee reminder.