Irish vote of gay marriage
Discussion
Halb said:
THat's democracy, large issues which are evenly split will come round every generation or so, for important issues which are...complex, it maybe the best way.
I really don't get this. This isn't a question for a referendum, it's a personal issue. No one has the right to tell a grown woman what she can do with her own body. If people are anti abortion, then don't have one. It's not compulsory. It's like my neighbours having a vote to tell me what colour I should paint my front door!! It's no one's business but my own, and it's not a matter for public debate.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I really don't get this. This isn't a question for a referendum, it's a personal issue. No one has the right to tell a grown woman what she can do with her own body. If people are anti abortion, then don't have one. It's not compulsory.
It's like my neighbours having a vote to tell me what colour I should paint my front door!! It's no one's business but my own, and it's not a matter for public debate.
It's a legal requirement in the Republic of Ireland because a clause in the Constitution needs to be changed in order that the law can be changed.It's like my neighbours having a vote to tell me what colour I should paint my front door!! It's no one's business but my own, and it's not a matter for public debate.
Ireland has a written constitution which is a legal document. Politicians in Ireland do not have the power to change any part of the Constitution through the Irish Parliament (the Dáil) . Only the people can do that - and the only way that can be done is through a Referendum.
Referenda in Ireland are not called on a whim (like in the UK), they are called because they are a legal necessity.
Just to clarify the actual issue, here is the actual question that was asked in the referendum paper to which the answer was either "Yes" or "No" -
Do you approve of a bill to delete the Eighth Amendment and insert new wording into the Constitution stating that "Provision may be made by law for the regulation of termination of pregnancy".
So - as you can see, the vote is nothing to do with changing the law right now. All it is doing is asking the population if the Constitution can be amended so that new laws can be passed at a later date governing changes to the details of allowable conditions for abortions. Any new laws would therefore be processed through the Dáil and the Seanad (the Senate) in the normal way at a later date.
Do you approve of a bill to delete the Eighth Amendment and insert new wording into the Constitution stating that "Provision may be made by law for the regulation of termination of pregnancy".
So - as you can see, the vote is nothing to do with changing the law right now. All it is doing is asking the population if the Constitution can be amended so that new laws can be passed at a later date governing changes to the details of allowable conditions for abortions. Any new laws would therefore be processed through the Dáil and the Seanad (the Senate) in the normal way at a later date.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I really don't get this. This isn't a question for a referendum, it's a personal issue. No one has the right to tell a grown woman what she can do with her own body. If people are anti abortion, then don't have one. It's not compulsory.
It's like my neighbours having a vote to tell me what colour I should paint my front door!! It's no one's business but my own, and it's not a matter for public debate.
I’m pro choice however it’s not as black and white as saying that this should only be the woman’s decision to make. At some point in the pregnancy the whole “No one has the right to tell a grown woman what she can do with her own body” thing no longer applies. For example, in this country you can only terminate a pregnancy after 24 weeks if the mother's life is at risk or ifthe child would be born with a severe disability. It's like my neighbours having a vote to tell me what colour I should paint my front door!! It's no one's business but my own, and it's not a matter for public debate.
Sure perhaps it’s isnt a referendum issue however most people would agree that the state does have a right to tell a woman what to do re pregnancies after a certain stage.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
No one has the right to tell a grown woman what she can do with her own body. If people are anti abortion, then don't have one. It's not compulsory.
Thats a massive over simplification of the issue though.I'm not looking to spark a debate on the pros and cons of abortion but in effect the anti abortion stance can be boiled down to when you believe it is a human life and therefore should be effected the rights and protections of any other living human being.
If you believe it is it at the point of conception, then of course you would seek to stop abortion as you see it as effectively murdering a human life.
Saying 'if you dont like it dont have one' is a bit like saying we are gong to legalise murder, but if you dont like it just dont murder anyone.....
Its a hugely complicated issue, personally I think I would be around 65% / 35% against it.
HughiusMaximus said:
Thats a massive over simplification of the issue though.
I'm not looking to spark a debate on the pros and cons of abortion but in effect the anti abortion stance can be boiled down to when you believe it is a human life and therefore should be effected the rights and protections of any other living human being.
If you believe it is it at the point of conception, then of course you would seek to stop abortion as you see it as effectively murdering a human life.
Saying 'if you dont like it dont have one' is a bit like saying we are gong to legalise murder, but if you dont like it just dont murder anyone.....
Its a hugely complicated issue, personally I think I would be around 65% / 35% against it.
It's nothing like saying we'll legalise murder. Zero similarities. Absolutely none. I'm not looking to spark a debate on the pros and cons of abortion but in effect the anti abortion stance can be boiled down to when you believe it is a human life and therefore should be effected the rights and protections of any other living human being.
If you believe it is it at the point of conception, then of course you would seek to stop abortion as you see it as effectively murdering a human life.
Saying 'if you dont like it dont have one' is a bit like saying we are gong to legalise murder, but if you dont like it just dont murder anyone.....
Its a hugely complicated issue, personally I think I would be around 65% / 35% against it.
Cold said:
It's nothing like saying we'll legalise murder. Zero similarities. Absolutely none.
Glad you feel so certain about it.....Feel free to say why you disagree.
For the record, I didnt say abortion was murder, I said that the "if you dont like it dont have one" argument is nonsensical.
BlackLabel said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I really don't get this. This isn't a question for a referendum, it's a personal issue. No one has the right to tell a grown woman what she can do with her own body. If people are anti abortion, then don't have one. It's not compulsory.
It's like my neighbours having a vote to tell me what colour I should paint my front door!! It's no one's business but my own, and it's not a matter for public debate.
I’m pro choice however it’s not as black and white as saying that this should only be the woman’s decision to make. At some point in the pregnancy the whole “No one has the right to tell a grown woman what she can do with her own body” thing no longer applies. For example, in this country you can only terminate a pregnancy after 24 weeks if the mother's life is at risk or ifthe child would be born with a severe disability. It's like my neighbours having a vote to tell me what colour I should paint my front door!! It's no one's business but my own, and it's not a matter for public debate.
Sure perhaps it’s isnt a referendum issue however most people would agree that the state does have a right to tell a woman what to do re pregnancies after a certain stage.
I would be pro choice, but can appreciate the other side's view.
HughiusMaximus said:
Glad you feel so certain about it.....
Feel free to say why you disagree.
For the record, I didnt say abortion was murder, I said that the "if you dont like it dont have one" argument is nonsensical.
Feel free to point out where I said "if you don't like it don't have one" . Feel free to say why you disagree.
For the record, I didnt say abortion was murder, I said that the "if you dont like it dont have one" argument is nonsensical.
What has happened with this vote is now those who want a termination in their home country will now no longer be criminalised for it. Those who don't wish to have a termination in their own country will not be affected.
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