Irish vote of gay marriage

[MC Bodge]

desolate said:

Kawasicki said:

Maybe I should. Does my opinion upset you? Your opinion doesn’t upset me. Since we are being daft. If the UK were to restrict abortion to less than 22 weeks would you move to another country that allowed terminations hours/minutes/seconds before birth?

You opinion seems to be that you would favour a reduction in the number of weeks an abortion would be allowed.

Which seems at odds with some of your original posts. I'd be in favour of regular and robust checks of the limits - although if I have it correct the Irish have voted to allow abortion only up to 12 weeks.

I think he may have given it some consideration during this useful discussion.

[Halb]

Looking at the stats, I think the UK has struck a good balance.

weeks	number
3-8	134,849
9-12	34,976
13-19	12,738
20-23	2,807
24 and over	226

91% under 12 weeks

[anonymous-user]

MC Bodge said:

I think he may have given it some consideration during this useful discussion.

That's great then. I was brought up as a Catholic and I constantly have to check myself about this.

Surely an all time first on PH!

[Derek Smith]

There's an incredible amount of information on the net regarding abortions. A significant about is one side or the other pushing an agenda with little or no comparison. I'm glad it's not me wondering. However, there are some basic stats on time limits.

Total terminations: 185,596

Terminations up to 12 weeks: 169,825 which is 91%

Terminations up to 18 weeks: 181,874 which is 98%

Terminations 19 weeks plus: 3722.

That's 2%

(All percentages rounded to nearest whole number and subject to official confirmation.)

The 2% figure is all abortions over 18 weeks, so includes those up to 28 weeks and over and would include where the baby is dead or the mother's life is threatened.

So practice seems to be keeping pace with reform. I don't know why. I've read that some pressure groups are pushing for 18 weeks and it would seem that generally, this is what is happening. They've already got it.

I'm oddly reassured although I'm not sure why.

[Derek Smith]

Halb said:

Looking at the stats, I think the UK has struck a good balance.

weeks	number
3-8	134,849
9-12	34,976
13-19	12,738
20-23	2,807
24 and over	226

91% under 12 weeks

You beat me to it. But given the amount of maths required by my ageing brain, I will not delete my post.

[Halb]

Yeah, I think the system works

[Kawasicki]

MC Bodge said:

desolate said:

Kawasicki said:

Maybe I should. Does my opinion upset you? Your opinion doesn’t upset me. Since we are being daft. If the UK were to restrict abortion to less than 22 weeks would you move to another country that allowed terminations hours/minutes/seconds before birth?

You opinion seems to be that you would favour a reduction in the number of weeks an abortion would be allowed.

Which seems at odds with some of your original posts. I'd be in favour of regular and robust checks of the limits - although if I have it correct the Irish have voted to allow abortion only up to 12 weeks.

I think he may have given it some consideration during this useful discussion.

I always give consideration during discussions, otherwise what would be the point of discussion?

You don’t have it correct...there is no absolute limit on abortion in Ireland. There wasn’t before the referendum either. The referendum has now allowed abortion up to 12 weeks to become legal in all circumstances, And...

“Beyond 12 weeks, termination will only occur in exceptional circumstances – specifically if there is a grave risk to the health or the life of the woman, or if there’s a significant foetal life-limiting abnormality.”

The proposed legislation states...
It shall be lawful to carry out a termination of pregnancy in accordance with this Head where two medical practitioners certify that, in their reasonable opinion formed in good faith:
there is a risk to the life of, or serious harm to the health of, the pregnant woman,
the foetus has not reached viability, and
it is appropriate to carry out the termination of pregnancy in order to avert that risk.

So abortion after 12 weeks may also be legal.

[anonymous-user]

To avoid the multi quoting:

The caveats seem reasonable to me - what do you think?
It seems not from the post.

[eldar]

Kawasicki said:

12 weeks. A fertilized embryo is not a person, for some odd reason you seem to think I’m religious!

At 18 weeks babies can now survive. Aborting at 24 weeks is extremely disturbing.

Edited by Kawasicki on Monday 28th May 18:19

Can you supply any evidence of a live birth after 18 weeks gestation?

[Kawasicki]

eldar said:

Kawasicki said:

12 weeks. A fertilized embryo is not a person, for some odd reason you seem to think I’m religious!

At 18 weeks babies can now survive. Aborting at 24 weeks is extremely disturbing.

Edited by Kawasicki on Monday 28th May 18:19

Can you supply any evidence of a live birth after 18 weeks gestation?

https://obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1471-0528.2005.00648.x

[vonuber]

Kawasicki said:

https://obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10....

Given that 30 years ago it would have died, would you be as disturbed then or just accept it?

[Derek Smith]

Kawasicki said:

https://obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10....

That's a rather odd report, reading almost like a thesis. I'm not sure that its legal claims are correct.

The main reason for the abortions was Down's Syndrome. This is discovered fairly late on in the pregnancy, in theory as early as 13/4 weeks but in practice somewhat longer.

Whether it should be a reason for termination is, I think, down to personal views.

[slow_poke]

Some things being tossed around in the recent Irish referendum:

97% of UK abortions are of healthy foesuses.
1 in 5 UK pregnancies are terminated.

Ireland isn't the UK, the Irish aren't the British therefore forecasting such to happen in Ireland is pointless and irrelevant.

[Eric Mc]

slow_poke said:

Some things being tossed around in the recent Irish referendum:

97% of UK abortions are of healthy foesuses.
1 in 5 UK pregnancies are terminated.

Ireland isn't the UK, the Irish aren't the British therefore forecasting such to happen in Ireland is pointless and irrelevant.

Why are they still debating this in Ireland? The battle is over.

[slow_poke]

Eric Mc said:

slow_poke said:

Some things being tossed around in the recent Irish referendum:

97% of UK abortions are of healthy foesuses.
1 in 5 UK pregnancies are terminated.

Ireland isn't the UK, the Irish aren't the British therefore forecasting such to happen in Ireland is pointless and irrelevant.

Why are they still debating this in Ireland? The battle is over.

Those points were raised during the referendum. I haven't heard anyone debating them since.

[Eric Mc]

slow_poke said:

Eric Mc said:

slow_poke said:

Some things being tossed around in the recent Irish referendum:

97% of UK abortions are of healthy foesuses.
1 in 5 UK pregnancies are terminated.

Ireland isn't the UK, the Irish aren't the British therefore forecasting such to happen in Ireland is pointless and irrelevant.

Why are they still debating this in Ireland? The battle is over.

Those points were raised during the referendum. I haven't heard anyone debating them since.

I thought you were referring to what is still going on. In fact, they are still discussing the matter in Ireland today (I was listening to Radio 4's Women's Hour" this morning and it was the main topic of discussion - featuring a discussion between two doctors from either side of the discussion.

Also, yesterday on RTE Radio 1 it was still being argued (quite vehemently).

And it looks like it might kick off north of the border too.

[slow_poke]

Eric Mc said:

slow_poke said:

Eric Mc said:

slow_poke said:

Some things being tossed around in the recent Irish referendum:

97% of UK abortions are of healthy foesuses.
1 in 5 UK pregnancies are terminated.

Ireland isn't the UK, the Irish aren't the British therefore forecasting such to happen in Ireland is pointless and irrelevant.

Why are they still debating this in Ireland? The battle is over.

Those points were raised during the referendum. I haven't heard anyone debating them since.

I thought you were referring to what is still going on. In fact, they are still discussing the matter in Ireland today (I was listening to Radio 4's Women's Hour" this morning and it was the main topic of discussion - featuring a discussion between two doctors from either side of the discussion.

Also, yesterday on RTE Radio 1 it was still being argued (quite vehemently).

And it looks like it might kick off north of the border too.

WaterfordWhispers are reporting on a rumour that the NO campaign are selling off all their old posters and leaflets to the DUP. "Win-Win" for both of them, they reckon....

[Eric Mc]

"No" is the DUP's favourite word (usually followed by the word "Surrender").

[MC Bodge]

Radio4 news said that the Irish government expected that women from Northern Ireland might go to the Republic for terminations in the future.

[Eric Mc]

MC Bodge said:

Radio4 news said that the Irish government expected that women from Northern Ireland might go to the Republic for terminations in the future.

A really odd outcome. Of course, if the border becomes a hard border, they might have to put border guards on the border checking to see if women travelling North to South who were pregnant on the way down are still pregnant on the way back.

And don't laugh. In the 1960s, women were arrested travelling from NI to the Republic because they had bought condoms in Belfast.