Good work Police Scotland

[richie99]

Einion Yrth said:

Scrubs said:

Disgrace of a situation.

Police Scotland were maybe too busy trying to Police 'thought crimes' on Twitter:

Clapton knows I'm no supporter of the police, but even I struggle to find any tenable connection between "police Scotland are an unpleasant band of overly PC aholes" and "an underpaid twonk in a call centre fked up."

I think this poster was simply trying to suggest that it is not possible for a police 'service' to do everything and they have to prioritise. A focus on people being rude online and the much publicised plan to relentlessly pursue drivers who are 1 mph over the speed limit necessarily means that saving people's lives has less focus than in a police force not focused on such things.

[V8 Fettler]

Cat said:

V8 Fettler said:

Call handling centre. Each incoming call automatically generates a file including time, date, caller I/D (if available), link to recording of call (storage is cheap), call handler adds detail and allocates call. Screen cannot be closed with no action, summary of call reviewed by supervisor within 24 hours.

The call handlers are not paid the highest of hourly rates; mistakes are expected, unlikely to be life threatening but some cost implications.

So does a supervisor listen to every call and confirm that what was said matches the details added to the system or do they just review the summary of the call added to the system by the call handler? If it's the former how does it impact on resources - is there a supervisor for every couple of call handlers? If it's the latter how do they pick up if the call handler adds incorrect information to the summary?

Cat

From the small bit I see, it's unresolved and repeat calls that are highlighted. Supervisor listens to every call? Where did you get that from?

[Mojocvh]

richie99 said:

I think this poster was simply trying to suggest that it is not possible for a police 'service' to do everything and they have to prioritise. A focus on people being rude online and the much publicised plan to relentlessly pursue drivers who are 1 mph over the speed limit necessarily means that saving people's lives has less focus than in a politically directed police force not focused on such things.

EFA.

[KarlMac]

Watching the anti-police debates from afar it appears the underlying issue most have is the lack of responsibility the police place on their workforce. Faults are 'process' or 'system'.

When you see a mistake made by the private sector that leads to loss of life it very quickly becomes X person who is prosecuted, seeing the same standards applied to the Police's internal departments would go a long way to satisfying some of the 'antis'.

Worth noting that this behavior is not limited exclusively to the Police, and can be seen in virtually every Public service. We lost a family member due to the direct negligence of a NHS employee, its Ok though cause they've changed their process now 'so it can't happen again'

[NoNeed]

Rovinghawk said:

NoNeed said:

we hear it every time the police do something wrong,

they never do anything wrong- it's our misperception.

NoNeed said:

confidence in the honesty of the police is at an all time low.

It's at an all-time high, apparently- they have surveys, you know.

I think I am old fashioned in expecting honesty from our coppers but it appears that every few months they do something else to erode our trust and resoect.

I can accept mistakes and dropped bks but lies just make me want to bring back hanging to set examples as if you can't trust a copper who can you trust.

The likes of Derek will never get that for one simple reason, they are not prepared to look in a mirror to see a human being, they are far too busy hiding behing their stained uniforms.

[Cat]

V8 Fettler said:

From the small bit I see, it's unresolved and repeat calls that are highlighted. Supervisor listens to every call? Where did you get that from?

I'm trying to understand how the system you describe could help. If a supervisor doesn't listen to every call then you are reliant on the information added to the system by the call taker being correct. If the call is a customer complaint and the call handler logs it as a something else how do you know the call has been wrongly categorised without listening to the call?

Cat

[Cabinet Enforcer]

KarlMac said:

Watching the anti-police debates from afar it appears the underlying issue most have is the lack of responsibility the police place on their workforce. Faults are 'process' or 'system'.

You are right that this is a widely held perception, however the opposite is in fact the case. The public sector are among the worst (but not the only) offenders in their willingness to throw low level scapegoats under a bus for minor stuff, by the time things are important enough to hit the press someone sensible has usually worked out that perhaps the "way things are done" is wrong rather than it all being down to individuals.

Note that in this case, in the early statements the call handler was mentioned, seemingly blaming them. The golden rule of investigation is "Find out what happened, then work out whose fault it was", seems like Police Scotland started off the other way around.

[V8 Fettler]

Cat said:

V8 Fettler said:

From the small bit I see, it's unresolved and repeat calls that are highlighted. Supervisor listens to every call? Where did you get that from?

I'm trying to understand how the system you describe could help. If a supervisor doesn't listen to every call then you are reliant on the information added to the system by the call taker being correct. If the call is a customer complaint and the call handler logs it as a something else how do you know the call has been wrongly categorised without listening to the call?

Cat

I only see a small bit of the process, I'll ask the question.

[Mojocvh]

NoNeed said:

Rovinghawk said:

NoNeed said:

we hear it every time the police do something wrong,

they never do anything wrong- it's our misperception.

NoNeed said:

confidence in the honesty of the police is at an all time low.

It's at an all-time high, apparently- they have surveys, you know.

I think I am old fashioned in expecting honesty from our coppers but it appears that every few months they do something else to erode our trust and resoect.

I can accept mistakes and dropped bks but lies just make me want to bring back hanging to set examples as if you can't trust a copper who can you trust.

The likes of Derek will never get that for one simple reason, they are not prepared to look in a mirror to see a human being, they are far too busy hiding behing their stained uniforms.

Oh for heavens sake you're completely off the plot

[Greendubber]

Mojocvh said:

Oh for heavens sake you're completely off the plot

'Tomlinson!!!!!!!!!!!! 11111eleven!!!'

Standard reply.

[Derek Smith]

NoNeed said:

I think I am old fashioned in expecting honesty from our coppers but it appears that every few months they do something else to erode our trust and resoect.

I can accept mistakes and dropped bks but lies just make me want to bring back hanging to set examples as if you can't trust a copper who can you trust.

The likes of Derek will never get that for one simple reason, they are not prepared to look in a mirror to see a human being, they are far too busy hiding behing their stained uniforms.

I gave up looking in the mirror, except for shaving, when I turned 65.

Has it occurred to you that trying to show where, in your opinion, I am wrong rather that just peppering your posts with abuse might be more useful in proving a point?

I've not told lies, in neither posts on PH nor when I was a police officer. Nor am I hiding 'behing' anything. I've merely stated the situation as I understand it.

I certainly do not know why the serial wasn't responded to so we have something in common.

I have not been abusive to anyone, nor have I accused anyone of telling lies without justification or evidence. So we have some differences.

Neither you nor I know why the call was not responded to. Only one of us appears to be forming decisions based on incomplete evidence.

But guess away. You appear to have a thing for unjustified assumptions: I'm dishonest, I have a stained uniform, not to mention the cause of this tragedy.

You haven't a clue about me. So lay off the personal abuse. It is out of order.

[RichB]

Derek Smith said:

I have a stained uniform...

Oh come one Derek, you're over 65, you're bound to dribble a little bit these days !

[NoNeed]

Mojocvh said:

Oh for heavens sake you're completely off the plot

Why?


Why is it wrong to expect our police to be an example of honesty?

[Rovinghawk]

Greendubber said:

'Tomlinson!!!!!!!!!!!! 11111eleven!!!'

Standard reply.

May I ask what this actually means?

[Eclassy]

KarlMac said:

Watching the anti-police debates from afar it appears the underlying issue most have is the lack of responsibility the police place on their workforce. Faults are 'process' or 'system'.

When you see a mistake made by the private sector that leads to loss of life it very quickly becomes X person who is prosecuted, seeing the same standards applied to the Police's internal departments would go a long way to satisfying some of the 'antis'.

Worth noting that this behavior is not limited exclusively to the Police, and can be seen in virtually every Public service. We lost a family member due to the direct negligence of a NHS employee, its Ok though cause they've changed their process now 'so it can't happen again'

Correct. I was going to type something along this line but with English not being my first language I wasnt sure I could eloquently pass the mesaage across

Both La Liga and Derek Smith have already refered to systems and processes.

It is also funny that Derek wants us to take into consideration the 100,000 calls the call handler had taken before this cock up but will the police take into consideration the 100,000 miles a sales man has driven before charging him with dangerous driving after falling asleep at the wheel and runnng over a child

[Derek Smith]

RichB said:

Oh come one Derek, you're over 65, you're bound to dribble a little bit these days !

It is really irritating.

I chat to strangers in Starbucks and similar and then sell my books to them. Now I'm aged, girls in their teens and 20s will happily chat away as they never did when I was younger. From years working in Brighton, you would see girls happy to chat away to gay blokes as they felt safe. The only thing in doubt is whether that chat to me because I'm old or whether I seem gay. Either way, I'm no threat.

All rather sad.

[Derek Smith]

Eclassy said:

Correct. I was going to type something along this line but with English not being my first language I wasnt sure I could eloquently pass the mesaage across

Both La Liga and Derek Smith have already refered to systems and processes.

It is also funny that Derek wants us to take into consideration the 100,000 calls the call handler had taken before this cock up but will the police take into consideration the 100,000 miles a sales man has driven before charging him with dangerous driving after falling asleep at the wheel and runnng over a child

Forgive me for not being able to interpret your comment, but are you suggesting that the police should not report someone for driving whilst so tired that they fall asleep at the wheel?

I've posted a number of times that the imposition of speed cameras should result in the dropping of the four strikes and out rule or else have some consideration for the miles driven. I'm glad you've caught up.

Again you state that it is a cock-up by the controller. You don't know this. I've stated, perhaps you missed it, that it is probably a fault of the controller but, as is possible, he might well have been following internal orders. Policing is disciplined. A police officer is obliged to follow any order which is not against the law. It is both a strength of the service and a major weakness.

Edited to add:

Put very clearly here:

La Liga said:

The problem is they're not willing / capable of realising / debating in any depth. It takes effort to go beyond the the first, intuitive response and actually think about things. Suggesting this incident requires the processes and procedures examined to see if there's an opportunity to reduce the chance of it reoccurring is a "smoke screen", apparently. Also, words like "process" are BS bingo. It's clearly an obfuscated term.

I'm not sure just being angry and irrational makes for much improvement in organisations. I always thought there needs to be some specificity into what should be done.

Edited by Derek Smith on Monday 13th July 17:13

[mcdjl]

I can imagine a whole range of calls which would see this put into the 'deal with if we get a chance' pile:

caller: I think Isaw a car ahead of/behind/on the opposite carriage way to me and think it went off the road

Caller: I saw a car go off the road and I'm on the M9

Caller: I saw a blue clio go off the road and I'm on a motorway in Scotland

(from a photo somewhere on here the car looks fairly intact on one side) Caller: theres a car down the embankment on the M9, no it looks ok from what i saw, no i don't know where i am.

All of which are followed up with: 'no it doesn't seem serious, I've called 101, if it was a real worry I'd have called 999'

In England/Wales all of these should cause the Highways Agency to put up a 'warning incident/ slow' message on the overhead gantry (that agency doesn't exist in Scotland) causing every driver on which ever motorway the driver thought they were on to moan about inaccurate gantry signs slowing them down for no reason. This would then be cleared sector by sector by police/HA driving through it. For some reason Scotland appears not to have gone down this route.

[Digger]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-cent...

If you read down the article the caller allegedly states the location of the vehicle.

[robbocop33]

I can't even begin to think how i'd feel if i was the girl's brother,i'd be livid!!I watch the CI channel a lot on Sky and it reminds me a bit of one case where a lady had just come off the road in her car,she was reported missing for 7 days,she was found alive after the seven days still strapped into the car upside down!!
Her boyfriend got the law changed as the police only had to ping her mobile and they would have got her location pretty quick.Main difference ofcourse this latest case the car was reported in a sighting,one i watched wasn't.Kind of similar feelings for relatives though.