Discussion
VolvoT5 said:
To be fair this is one of Corbyn's best speeches to date and it follows off his best PMQs a couple of weeks back. Ok it is a low bar but by his standards this isn't the car crash it could have been.
Still what he is offering is still totally unpalatable to middle England.
HIs delivery is still poor and disjointed. Sometimes feels like he's ad-libbing and it doesn't work very well...or the teleprompter is going to fast for him Still what he is offering is still totally unpalatable to middle England.
sirtyro said:
HIs delivery is still poor and disjointed. Sometimes feels like he's ad-libbing and it doesn't work very well...or the teleprompter is going to fast for him
Yeah he has an unusual style of speech... I mean he is the same when he is speaking off the cuff as well... seems to lack flow and he emphasises some words mid sentence and I can't work out why. I have to say I think his position on Brexit is probably the most realsitic of all the remainers (perhaps because he isn't really a remainer). This idea that half the Labour party (and Lib Dems) have that it is acceptable to somehow ignore the result and demand a second vote is just ridiculous. Get out and make the most of it is the only realistic position for Labour to take.
VolvoT5 said:
To be fair this is one of Corbyn's best speeches to date and it follows off his best PMQs a couple of weeks back. Ok it is a low bar but by his standards this isn't the car crash it could have been.
Still what he is offering is still totally unpalatable to middle England.
WHAT.....the guy is talking total crap....100% of itStill what he is offering is still totally unpalatable to middle England.
sirtyro said:
HIs delivery is still poor and disjointed. Sometimes feels like he's ad-libbing and it doesn't work very well...or the teleprompter is going to fast for him
That'll be when he goes into dalek mode towards the end of some sentences, with short gasps for breath in between.
k that is over with. 1 hour.... way too long. techiedave said:
Being serious for a minute this Economy in Brexit Britain Fringe meeting coverage is a real eye opener. They are just queuing up to out farage Farage with regards to immigration. Quite genuinely the comments Chukka and an other woman said they would have attacked Farage for during the Brexit debate
No-one does hypocrisy like the left.amgmcqueen said:
Although it is good for the country to have strong opposition, I am going to enjoy watching the death of Labour at the next GE.
I've been thinking about this notion that Labour are no longer a 'strong' opposition to the current lot but are people looking at this from the wrong perspective? A chap I was speaking to a few days back mentioned this school of thought: perhaps what Labour has become is actually the very definition of a 'strong' opposition, in the true sense of the term? They are diametrically opposed to the current government. They offer a totally different version of how the country should be run (one which, I fully accept, is a totally off-the-wall, ill thought out, 1970's Socialist utopian vision which is completely bonkers and will end is disaster) rather than having two parties who are to all intents and purposes two sides of the same coin who will give everyone the same whilst pretending they are radically different to one another.
OK, Labour may not currently appear to be a 'strong' opposition, but they are unquestionably offering something totally different. That is surely what an opposition is there to do if that's what they believe in.
AJL308 said:
I've been thinking about this notion that Labour are no longer a 'strong' opposition to the current lot but are people looking at this from the wrong perspective?
I don't think so. A strong opposition is one who can organise them selves to effectively hold the sitting government to account, even on policy which they might ideologically agree with.
Currently they are not effectively achieving anything other than destroying their own credibility.
AJL308 said:
amgmcqueen said:
Although it is good for the country to have strong opposition, I am going to enjoy watching the death of Labour at the next GE.
I've been thinking about this notion that Labour are no longer a 'strong' opposition to the current lot but are people looking at this from the wrong perspective? A chap I was speaking to a few days back mentioned this school of thought: perhaps what Labour has become is actually the very definition of a 'strong' opposition, in the true sense of the term? They are diametrically opposed to the current government. They offer a totally different version of how the country should be run (one which, I fully accept, is a totally off-the-wall, ill thought out, 1970's Socialist utopian vision which is completely bonkers and will end is disaster) rather than having two parties who are to all intents and purposes two sides of the same coin who will give everyone the same whilst pretending they are radically different to one another.
OK, Labour may not currently appear to be a 'strong' opposition, but they are unquestionably offering something totally different. That is surely what an opposition is there to do if that's what they believe in.
It's going so well, they might win another council seat.
For all labours current failings, im disappointed that either the Lib dems or UKIP havnt stepped up to fill the potential void.
As much as Corbyn appeals to some with similar ideology, i feel UKIP could have rebranded and changed direction after their perceived winning taking us to Brexit.
A simple change of policy and some obvious following could have seen UKIP quickly emerge as the second biggest party in the UK. Not only increasing voting numbers but seats.
So as much as watching Corbyn take labour in a direction i fell is both funny and damaging to Labour. Theirs a sense of disappointment that other parties havnt stepped into this perceived void left by labour voter numbers reducing.
As much as Corbyn appeals to some with similar ideology, i feel UKIP could have rebranded and changed direction after their perceived winning taking us to Brexit.
A simple change of policy and some obvious following could have seen UKIP quickly emerge as the second biggest party in the UK. Not only increasing voting numbers but seats.
So as much as watching Corbyn take labour in a direction i fell is both funny and damaging to Labour. Theirs a sense of disappointment that other parties havnt stepped into this perceived void left by labour voter numbers reducing.
Gandahar said:
Being rather middle of the road rather than the right wing hordes on here with their Audi 3.0 TDI S-lines I'm not totally against the labour party, however I do think old JC is too much like Michael Foot.
We need another Neil Kinnock!
Haha. I thought Foot was a pretty smart chap who couldn't stop 'Militant' trotskyists wrecking the party (happy to be corrected before my time), where as Corbyn is a complete idiot who is actually one of the 'Momentum' trotskyists trying to destroy the party?We need another Neil Kinnock!
fblm said:
Haha. I thought Foot was a pretty smart chap who couldn't stop 'Militant' trotskyists wrecking the party (happy to be corrected before my time), where as Corbyn is a complete idiot who is actually one of the 'Momentum' trotskyists trying to destroy the party?
And at least Michael Foot was an orator, whereas Jeremy Corbyn could do a soundtrack to watch paint dry to.AJL308 said:
amgmcqueen said:
Although it is good for the country to have strong opposition, I am going to enjoy watching the death of Labour at the next GE.
I've been thinking about this notion that Labour are no longer a 'strong' opposition to the current lot but are people looking at this from the wrong perspective? A chap I was speaking to a few days back mentioned this school of thought: perhaps what Labour has become is actually the very definition of a 'strong' opposition, in the true sense of the term? They are diametrically opposed to the current government. They offer a totally different version of how the country should be run (one which, I fully accept, is a totally off-the-wall, ill thought out, 1970's Socialist utopian vision which is completely bonkers and will end is disaster) rather than having two parties who are to all intents and purposes two sides of the same coin who will give everyone the same whilst pretending they are radically different to one another.
OK, Labour may not currently appear to be a 'strong' opposition, but they are unquestionably offering something totally different. That is surely what an opposition is there to do if that's what they believe in.
Blairites are not a strong opposition to what the Conservative party has become because they're one and the same (and the Lib Dems). Hence the rise (still modest) of 'other' parties.
mikebradford said:
For all labours current failings, im disappointed that either the Lib dems or UKIP havnt stepped up to fill the potential void.
As much as Corbyn appeals to some with similar ideology, i feel UKIP could have rebranded and changed direction after their perceived winning taking us to Brexit.
A simple change of policy and some obvious following could have seen UKIP quickly emerge as the second biggest party in the UK. Not only increasing voting numbers but seats.
I share your disappointment, but there is time yet. Arron Banks has been making noises about something along these lines, or a right wing momentum.As much as Corbyn appeals to some with similar ideology, i feel UKIP could have rebranded and changed direction after their perceived winning taking us to Brexit.
A simple change of policy and some obvious following could have seen UKIP quickly emerge as the second biggest party in the UK. Not only increasing voting numbers but seats.
Esseesse said:
This ^
Blairites are not a strong opposition to what the Conservative party has become because they're one and the same (and the Lib Dems). Hence the rise (still modest) of 'other' parties.
^ This x2. Blairites are not a strong opposition to what the Conservative party has become because they're one and the same (and the Lib Dems). Hence the rise (still modest) of 'other' parties.
From what I can see there is almost no difference between the left and centre of the Conservative party and the right or 'moderate' wing of the Labour party. The likes of Blair, Cameron, Osborne and Brown would all feel pretty comfortable in the same party / government. The Lib Dems under Clegg were offering up pretty much the same thing but with a stronger pro-EU and pro-immigration stance.
The Left takeover of Labour at the moment is almost a template for what could have happened to the Conservatives if one of the minority hard right wingers had won their leadership instead of May.
The dividing lines of politics are very blurred at the moment, it is no longer left/right and with a different electoral system I suspect there would be 3 or even 4 significant parties rather than just the two. (excluding Scotland)
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