Why is Cannabis still illegal?

[e21Mark]

JensenA said:

e21Mark said:

vetrof said:

FredClogs said:

vetrof said:

FredClogs said:

Knives, dogs, paint and glue have other uses other than altering human brain chemistry... Beer you could argue.

So what?

So what, what?

....has that got to do with it? If it's all about protecting the most vulnerable people (no matter how tiny a percentage that may be) the substance, implement, activity is surely irrelevant.

Just how tiny a percentage do you think admit to having developed a problem with illegal drugs?

There are a million UK residents with a drug problem. (About 13% of users) it's fair to assume that number would increase were laws removed. Obviously that doesn't include the families who's lives are also blighted by the outfall from drug use.

Do you drink alcohol? Have you turned into an alcoholic? Presuming you do partake in the consumption of alcohol - a far more dangerous and socially disruptive drug than cannabis - If it was made illegal in the UK, would you never be tempted to buy a nice bottle of 'red' that some scumbag drug smuggler had fought into the UK? D,you think that the numbers of Alocholics would decrease if alcohol was illegal?
Your opinions are blighted by an ignorance and prejudice against cannabis.

No, I don't drink alcohol. I don't particularly like the taste of those alcoholic beverage I have tried but, more than that, I dislike the effects of alcohol. I also drive most places and don't believe anyone should drive having consumed alcohol.

As for my views being blighted by ignorance and prejudice? I have been a drugs worker for a good few years and as such, seen and managed many clients suffering all sorts of drug related problems. I have also witnessed just how these problems impact upon both the user and their families etc.

[Tonsko]

I think by saying 'were laws removed' gives away your position. The case for decriminalisation and not legalisation is the one that most people on the 'pro' side here seem to support - that is, the methods proposed by Portugal. So, while dealers are still punished via the normal means, the market is attacked with sympathy - the users. There is support to not use the drugs, to come off them, e.g. if you are caught with a small amount of personal, you are not immediately vilified with a criminal record (making future job prospects harder and thus maybe continuing a downward spiral) but encouraged to, with the help of the state, not use anymore.

So, drug use, of all types, might see an explosion after decriminalisation, it is hoped that there would be an eventual overall improvement. The only data we have is the last 15 years of societal use in that little country in the SE of Europe. All signs point towards positivity. It's not perfect, but it seems a damn sight more intelligent approach than the current one.

[StottyEvo]

remkingston said:

Fred you're funny. Nice trolling buddy.

He has a different prospective to you, I get the impression a few on here (me included) are too hasty to treat other posters with more contempt than they should. He makes an interesting point with regards to suicide being illegal etc.

[remkingston]

StottyEvo said:

remkingston said:

Fred you're funny. Nice trolling buddy.

He has a different prospective to you, I get the impression a few on here (me included) are too hasty to treat other posters with more contempt than they should. He makes an interesting point with regards to suicide being illegal etc.

I understand he has a different point of view but they aren't really comparable.

"I'd better not commit suicide in case I get in trouble... I might go to prison or worse..."

The crux of this in my opinion is "if no harm comes to others then why is an individual not allowed to make their own decision (whether informed or not) about what to do with their own mental and physical state"

I think it highlights just how unfree you are in society unless you choose to stay in an alert state to help others generate wealth through money. The world is a pyramid scheme. Welcome to the layer cake.

Edited by remkingston on Thursday 6th August 13:33

[Einion Yrth]

StottyEvo said:

remkingston said:

Fred you're funny. Nice trolling buddy.

He makes an interesting point with regards to suicide being illegal etc.

Except that in the U.K. at least, it isn't. Nunn is an imbecile, frankly.

[otolith]

One of C. S. Lewis's sincere tyrannical moral busybodies.

[FredClogs]

remkingston said:

StottyEvo said:

remkingston said:

Fred you're funny. Nice trolling buddy.

He has a different prospective to you, I get the impression a few on here (me included) are too hasty to treat other posters with more contempt than they should. He makes an interesting point with regards to suicide being illegal etc.

I understand he has a different point of view but they aren't really comparable.

"I'd better not commit suicide in case I get in trouble... I might go to prison or worse..."

The crux of this in my opinion is "if no harm comes to others then why is an individual not allowed to make their own decision (whether informed or not) about what to do with their own mental and physical state"

I think it highlights just how unfree you are in society unless you choose to stay in an alert state to help others generate wealth through money. The world is a pyramid scheme. Welcome to the layer cake.

Edited by remkingston on Thursday 6th August 13:33

The point was and is that you don't "own" your consciousness or your body - the very idea that you have a "self" to own is philosophically dodgy, debatable and certainly unproven. It's perfectly clear in law, social philosophy and the general way civil society operates that some element of your "self" has to be centrally controlled for the greater benefit.

In other cultures or with historical perspective this is much more obvious than when one lives in a western liberal culture, but it's never the less true. It's also worth pointing out that no great civilisation or paradigm shift in humanity has been achieved without the use of slave labour, from the pyramids to the creation of the USA - all of humanities progresses were made by people owning and using other people, controlling their labour, thoughts and behaviour for the greater good.

[Fabric]

doogz said:

He wasn't the guy that wrote about the robotic gnomes/elves though, was he?

Can't remember that guys name, but that stuff, think it goes into ayahuasca, I want some of that!

Terrence Mckenna on DMT iirc, which sounds mental!

Edited by Fabric on Thursday 6th August 19:25

[BJG1]

Yeah that sounds like DMT, not tried it yet but cannot bloody wait.

[steveT350C]

DMT definitely on my bucket list, though not until I am much older.

In the meantime, a warning about MDMA...

http://www.theonion.com/article/anti-mdma-campaign...

[HRL]

Who'd have thought it. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/william...

[andy_s]

William Hague says 'war against cannabis 'comprehensively lost' and calls for 'decisive change' to policy.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44526156

[e30m3Mark]

Totally agree it should be available for medicinal use, although I imagine that any system will be abused.

As for legal recreational use, I'm not sure it's a good idea.

[thebraketester]

e30m3Mark said:

Totally agree it should be available for medicinal use, although I imagine that any system will be abused.

As for legal recreational use, I'm not sure it's a good idea.

Why? It’s legal in Amsterdam and what issues does it cause there?

[Timmy45]

thebraketester said:

e30m3Mark said:

Totally agree it should be available for medicinal use, although I imagine that any system will be abused.

As for legal recreational use, I'm not sure it's a good idea.

Why? It’s legal in Amsterdam and what issues does it cause there?

Indeed. Don't forget it comes in a variety of forms and strengths, so for example it would be perfectly possible to legalise milder leaf but still prohibit the stronger leaf varieties and resin which seem to be more associated with psychosis issues. The benefit would at least be that users could buy a known safe product, and it could be taxed.

[Digga]

thebraketester said:

e30m3Mark said:

Totally agree it should be available for medicinal use, although I imagine that any system will be abused.

As for legal recreational use, I'm not sure it's a good idea.

Why? It’s legal in Amsterdam and what issues does it cause there?

I know quite a few people who have/do use the stuff and the majority are, to varying degrees, fk ups. They might be quite intelligent, even hold down decent jobs, and very pleasant company but they are also fk ups - the sort of people prone to utterly stupid moments of uselessness and forgetfulness.

By no means a scientific survey, but an opinion I am not alone in sharing, despite not giving a fig about people using the stuff.

As for the criminal aspect, the best years the US Mafia ever had were during alcohol prohibition...

[hairyben]

andy_s said:

William Hague says 'war against cannabis 'comprehensively lost' and calls for 'decisive change' to policy.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44526156

always some fading and largely impotent politician trying to prove they're still relevant that find the need to tell it like it is

[u25kr]

Canada’s House of Commons has voted to legalise cannabis, moving the country one step closer to becoming the only G-8 nation to allow recreational use

.https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/canada-cannabis-legal-vote-commons-recreational-use-a8405336.html

[Mafffew]

Digga said:

I know quite a few people who have/do use the stuff and the majority are, to varying degrees, fk ups. They might be quite intelligent, even hold down decent jobs, and very pleasant company but they are also fk ups - the sort of people prone to utterly stupid moments of uselessness and forgetfulness.

By no means a scientific survey, but an opinion I am not alone in sharing, despite not giving a fig about people using the stuff.

Replace weed with alcohol and you have the same situation, arguably worse.

There is no legitimate reason for it still being illegal.

[wombleh]

It's not a problem free substance but I'd still prefer it were controlled by health professionals with the proceeds into the tax coffers rather than criminals, because that is the only real choice here.

Prohibition never works, unless you profit from the enforcement or the underground activity.