Why is Cannabis still illegal?
Discussion
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
Evolved said:
gizlaroc said:
V6 Pushfit said:
IMHO cannabis should be Class A. It’s a gateway drug.
It is only a gateway drug while it is illegal. I've smoked cannabis maybe 10x. I enjoy it in moderation. I've never been tempted by speed/coke/heroin et all. Dealers could persuade certain people that they 'must try this'. A legally certified seller would have no incentive to do so. Any drug is a choice. Just because you enjoy an odd toke doesn't mean that the next step is going all Pete Docherty.
For most alcoholics their first drink was probably larger but we don't bang on about that being a gateway to drinking meths.
Brave Fart said:
Genuine question: users smoke cannabis mixed with tobacco, right? Or not, I genuinely don't know.
If the former, then legalising cannabis increases smoking (of tobacco) - this cannot be a good thing.
If the latter, is there evidence about inhaling lungfuls of cannabis smoke........cancer, heart disease, all that?
I'm guessing that smoking cannabis in any amount is bad for you........so keep the law as it is. The idea that we should all be free to do whatever we wish is just nonsense and that includes using narcotics. Society needs fewer stoners, not more.
Mixing tobacco with cannabis has the same dangers as smoking tobacco. Smoking pure cannabis is lower risk mainly due to the lack of chemicals that tobacco companies add to their products but obviously smoking anything is not ideal. If my experience is anything to go by, while you will be aware of "stoners" most people who don't face regular drug testing in the workplace almost certainly work with at least a couple of "normal" people who take cannabis on a regular basis. If the former, then legalising cannabis increases smoking (of tobacco) - this cannot be a good thing.
If the latter, is there evidence about inhaling lungfuls of cannabis smoke........cancer, heart disease, all that?
I'm guessing that smoking cannabis in any amount is bad for you........so keep the law as it is. The idea that we should all be free to do whatever we wish is just nonsense and that includes using narcotics. Society needs fewer stoners, not more.
Brave Fart said:
Genuine question: users smoke cannabis mixed with tobacco, right? Or not, I genuinely don't know.
If the former, then legalising cannabis increases smoking (of tobacco) - this cannot be a good thing.
If the latter, is there evidence about inhaling lungfuls of cannabis smoke........cancer, heart disease, all that?
I'm guessing that smoking cannabis in any amount is bad for you........so keep the law as it is. The idea that we should all be free to do whatever we wish is just nonsense and that includes using narcotics. Society needs fewer stoners, not more.
Some users do, some don't. In a legal market it is most likely that tobacco use with cannabis would decrease as other methods of consuming it would be more readily available. If you're buying a bag of weed from your dealer it's most likely ending up in a joint. If you're in a shop selling weed, edibles, pre-rolled blunts, oils etc people will be less likely to smoke tobacco joints.If the former, then legalising cannabis increases smoking (of tobacco) - this cannot be a good thing.
If the latter, is there evidence about inhaling lungfuls of cannabis smoke........cancer, heart disease, all that?
I'm guessing that smoking cannabis in any amount is bad for you........so keep the law as it is. The idea that we should all be free to do whatever we wish is just nonsense and that includes using narcotics. Society needs fewer stoners, not more.
Your guess about smoking any amount of cannabis is incorrect.
OpulentBob said:
Never seen that great way to make a pointI've taken it for over 30 years, generally a couple on the weekend so quite light and casual. I wouldn't describe myself as a 'stoner' and have managed to hold down decent jobs, bring up two great kids, do ultra distance mountain running as a hobby and get a degree in my 40's. I don't buy from a 'guy in the park', I get specific strains of good quality from a trusted source and would never touch, nor been tempted by, anything 'harder'. I've friends who indulge occasionally that are solicitors, senior CEOs, doctors and so on. I can honestly say that it's done me no harm, especially nowadays as vaporisers become the delivery method of choice, and I've done no one any harm either in the process.
'Everything in moderation' is of course key; whether it be drink or weed or food or anything else we do, and barring the occasional binge, I generally stick to that. I've certainly been in worse states through alcohol than drugs, both during and after. I don't care for severe hangovers now, it must be said. But I'd care a whole lot less if I ended up with a criminal record for, in my opinion, something that is - certainly in my case - eminently benign to me and everyone else in society. It would be an unnecessary justice in my opinion.
Leaving aside mythbusters for a moment though - of course we're right to be cautious about the consequences of legalisation; there are inevitably downsides and contraindications for a small percentage of the population and some people may fall foul of one aspect or another. But generally speaking, those that want to smoke do so already, those that have addictive personalities or constantly seek bigger ways of obliterating themselves are doing so already, either the junkie under the bridge or the middle-class manager with a bottle of Vodka hidden in the bathroom. There is some truth to the gateway drug idea in that people who are apt to go that way may start small and grow big, but
it may help that instead of having to go to the only current source of dope who can also readily access other drugs vs. a legal source that only deals with dope may actually help cut that chain/temptation.
There is a concern on brain development in the young, concern that under-18's/21's may use it and concern for secondary/tertiary effects such as the bad smells for close neighbours(!), driving under the influence, being 'dull' at work or study, operating machinery etc but guess what - that already happens today and is unlikely to increase by any major percentile post-legalisation - don't forget, legalisation will surely come with more rigorous testing, educational material, cultural sensitivity, social awareness in workplace and education and advisory/help/support 'centres'; things that aren't so prevalent now. 2.2 million take it already and if you go off the countries that have legalised the numbers don't spike, they stay more or less the same or at least stay in the same ball park but you'll have better and more resources to deal with the issues that already exist today.
The main downside in the Colorado case has been an increase in homelessness, not because every one has become a waster and spent the family silver, but because so many people want to move there that prices and rents have shot through the roof. In Colorado the factories are akin to top tier medical facilities where everything is scrupulously grown in a laboratory-like environment, individual plants are bar-coded just like other consumables to track any cases of contamination or other. The shops are like craft beer pubs with an eclectic array of different varieties and 'yob buying' is firmly discouraged. Why go to an illegal dealer who cannot offer any of those benefits for about the same price (you ought to see their mark-up...)?
The revenue aspects are immense, probably well into the billions. Where do you want that money to go? At the moment it is distributed through criminal gangs, Chinese slave labour and into the pockets of gangsters with violence, prostitution, racketeering and dubious other drugs being supported by it. It could be going into the pockets of the grower, retailer and government. Talk to any front-line police officer and ask them how many tussles they've had with someone on dope versus how many alcohol related violent altercations and Domestics they've dealt with. I'd wager it's in single figures vs. 'every bloody weekend' for a 20 year experience bobby. It's winner-winner chicken dinner.
When I hear someone advance an argument with 'I don't know much about it but...death and destruction etc..' I immediately wonder at the relative cognitive functions between this person versus a quarter of a century stoner...
Peace, out.
'Everything in moderation' is of course key; whether it be drink or weed or food or anything else we do, and barring the occasional binge, I generally stick to that. I've certainly been in worse states through alcohol than drugs, both during and after. I don't care for severe hangovers now, it must be said. But I'd care a whole lot less if I ended up with a criminal record for, in my opinion, something that is - certainly in my case - eminently benign to me and everyone else in society. It would be an unnecessary justice in my opinion.
Leaving aside mythbusters for a moment though - of course we're right to be cautious about the consequences of legalisation; there are inevitably downsides and contraindications for a small percentage of the population and some people may fall foul of one aspect or another. But generally speaking, those that want to smoke do so already, those that have addictive personalities or constantly seek bigger ways of obliterating themselves are doing so already, either the junkie under the bridge or the middle-class manager with a bottle of Vodka hidden in the bathroom. There is some truth to the gateway drug idea in that people who are apt to go that way may start small and grow big, but
it may help that instead of having to go to the only current source of dope who can also readily access other drugs vs. a legal source that only deals with dope may actually help cut that chain/temptation.
There is a concern on brain development in the young, concern that under-18's/21's may use it and concern for secondary/tertiary effects such as the bad smells for close neighbours(!), driving under the influence, being 'dull' at work or study, operating machinery etc but guess what - that already happens today and is unlikely to increase by any major percentile post-legalisation - don't forget, legalisation will surely come with more rigorous testing, educational material, cultural sensitivity, social awareness in workplace and education and advisory/help/support 'centres'; things that aren't so prevalent now. 2.2 million take it already and if you go off the countries that have legalised the numbers don't spike, they stay more or less the same or at least stay in the same ball park but you'll have better and more resources to deal with the issues that already exist today.
The main downside in the Colorado case has been an increase in homelessness, not because every one has become a waster and spent the family silver, but because so many people want to move there that prices and rents have shot through the roof. In Colorado the factories are akin to top tier medical facilities where everything is scrupulously grown in a laboratory-like environment, individual plants are bar-coded just like other consumables to track any cases of contamination or other. The shops are like craft beer pubs with an eclectic array of different varieties and 'yob buying' is firmly discouraged. Why go to an illegal dealer who cannot offer any of those benefits for about the same price (you ought to see their mark-up...)?
The revenue aspects are immense, probably well into the billions. Where do you want that money to go? At the moment it is distributed through criminal gangs, Chinese slave labour and into the pockets of gangsters with violence, prostitution, racketeering and dubious other drugs being supported by it. It could be going into the pockets of the grower, retailer and government. Talk to any front-line police officer and ask them how many tussles they've had with someone on dope versus how many alcohol related violent altercations and Domestics they've dealt with. I'd wager it's in single figures vs. 'every bloody weekend' for a 20 year experience bobby. It's winner-winner chicken dinner.
When I hear someone advance an argument with 'I don't know much about it but...death and destruction etc..' I immediately wonder at the relative cognitive functions between this person versus a quarter of a century stoner...
Peace, out.
Edited by andy_s on Thursday 21st June 00:17
Evolved said:
gizlaroc said:
V6 Pushfit said:
IMHO cannabis should be Class A. It’s a gateway drug.
It is only a gateway drug while it is illegal. If you only ever bought weed in a cafe, why would you then want cocaine or heroin?
When someone who has never done drugs before goes to a bar and has a few beers do they suddenly think "I'll either a glass or red now or I might go out and find someone selling heroin. Decisions, decisions?"
Lost my best mate a few years back to heroin, he started scoring his weed off a lad he worked with, nice lad, used to go round with him. Turns out he was a herion user. My mate starts tooting it, then injecting, then a couple of years later he was dead.
Keeping weed buyers away from dealers, who more often than not offer a bit of everything, is probably worth legalising it imho.
Have never been a Cannabis user but it dies not bother me.
In Canada where I live it has been legalized nationally and regulations will be final in four month; this will include the ability to have four personal plants in your home. Will be regulated like alcohol bur since it cannot be prevented might as well tax it...
In Canada where I live it has been legalized nationally and regulations will be final in four month; this will include the ability to have four personal plants in your home. Will be regulated like alcohol bur since it cannot be prevented might as well tax it...
AJL308 said:
I really don't understand the obsession with smoking it when there are numerous others was to take it. Especially as inhaling smoke seems to be introducing loads more potential health risks.
Smoking cannabis is the easiest and cheapest way to instantly benefit from the effects.Eating it takes an unpredictably long time to take effect, and is very hard to dose.
Making oils from it takes a lot of time and much expense.
You could use it in a vaporizer, but they are much more expensive than rolling a joint.
Or whack it in a bong, if you want to avoid tobacco.
Or man up and have a big creamy bucket, yer Jessies.
Edited by Bacon Is Proof on Thursday 21st June 02:01
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
So Daily Mash is forefront cutting edge journalism 
This type of thread always has the potheads coming out trying to justify their addiction so it’s pretty pointless. Burgers are legal and so is alcohol and both aren’t exactly health benefitting but the damage that will be done to future generations of school kids from freely smoking weed will be a big issue.
As I have said before you only have to go to a mental health hospital to see the end result of drug use.
As I have said before you only have to go to a mental health hospital to see the end result of drug use.
gizlaroc said:
The main reason people move onto 'harder' drugs is some end up buying weed of someone who does and sells other things.
I've worked in criminal justice (drug and alcohol team) for a good few years and that hasn't been my experience. Very few people who deal in weed (in one form or other) have anything to do with the sale of Heroin and Cocaine. Many (and probably most) of my clients started their drug taking with weed as it was deemed the softest / most socially acceptable drug, ignoring alcohol. Drug use is progressive though and once the taboo of using any mood altering drug regularly is broken, many are certainly more open to the prospect of using stronger drugs. I'm not saying that anyone who smokes weed will automatically move on to Heroin, but I have certainly seen a good number where their path into addiction started with weed.
e30m3Mark said:
I've worked in criminal justice (drug and alcohol team) for a good few years and that hasn't been my experience. Very few people who deal in weed (in one form or other) have anything to do with the sale of Heroin and Cocaine.
Many (and probably most) of my clients started their drug taking with weed as it was deemed the softest / most socially acceptable drug, ignoring alcohol. Drug use is progressive though and once the taboo of using any mood altering drug regularly is broken, many are certainly more open to the prospect of using stronger drugs. I'm not saying that anyone who smokes weed will automatically move on to Heroin, but I have certainly seen a good number where their path into addiction started with weed.
Bang on, but the Space Cadets will have it that legalising weed stops all escalation to harder drugs. Oooh yes. Many (and probably most) of my clients started their drug taking with weed as it was deemed the softest / most socially acceptable drug, ignoring alcohol. Drug use is progressive though and once the taboo of using any mood altering drug regularly is broken, many are certainly more open to the prospect of using stronger drugs. I'm not saying that anyone who smokes weed will automatically move on to Heroin, but I have certainly seen a good number where their path into addiction started with weed.
If it’s not an issue with addiction to mood and mind altering cannabis I presume the users here could easily stop now? It would certainly help reduce the pressure on the nhs and mental health sectors.
V6 Pushfit said:
Bang on, but the Space Cadets will have it that legalising weed stops all escalation to harder drugs. Oooh yes.
If it’s not an issue with addiction to mood and mind altering cannabis I presume the users here could easily stop now? It would certainly help reduce the pressure on the nhs and mental health sectors.
Hyperbole and derogation do nothing to add credence to your argument, but I'm not sure what your argument is - cannabis doesn't have the same properties of physiological dependence that alcohol, nicotine or opiates do, but there can be slight 'dependence' on a psychological sense, like liking your favourite sweet, so it's quite easy to stop if needed. If you stop smoking weed there's no 'withdrawal' in the French Connection sense. Is this what you mean chap?If it’s not an issue with addiction to mood and mind altering cannabis I presume the users here could easily stop now? It would certainly help reduce the pressure on the nhs and mental health sectors.
V6 Pushfit said:
This type of thread always has the potheads coming out trying to justify their addiction so it’s pretty pointless. Burgers are legal and so is alcohol and both aren’t exactly health benefitting but the damage that will be done to future generations of school kids from freely smoking weed will be a big issue.
As I have said before you only have to go to a mental health hospital to see the end result of drug use.
You also only have to go a hospital, or walk down the street to see the end result of alcohol use! Yet these future generations you mention, will be free to chug down as much as they wish.As I have said before you only have to go to a mental health hospital to see the end result of drug use.
And no, I’m not a pot head trying to justify my ‘addiction’.
Evolved said:
You also only have to go a hospital, or walk down the street to see the end result of alcohol use! Yet these future generations you mention, will be free to chug down as much as they wish.
And no, I’m not a pot head trying to justify my ‘addiction’.
Deflection to alcohol doesn’t cut it as an excuse for cannabis use. Burgers won’t work either!And no, I’m not a pot head trying to justify my ‘addiction’.
andy_s said:
there can be slight 'dependence' on a psychological sense, like liking your favourite sweet, so it's quite easy to stop if needed.
Is it? and maybe people with depression could just pull themselves together?https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-re...
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