British nurses facing life on the street

[Sheepshanks]

sidicks said:

How does that give it a negative value?

Of course overall it has a positive value, but it’s not realisable for many years. It can’t be used to pay today’s bills, be taken account of when applying for a mortgage etc etc.

OTOH there’s a hefty employee contribution which must be paid today which has a negative impact. It goes up in steps according to salary but IIRC there’s quite a jump around £28K, exactly the figure being generally bandied about in this thread.

sidicks said:

They need to sort out their priorities! Typical of the current generation, who aren't prepared to defer short-term consumption.

That’s a wider problem. I don’t think you can make a comparison with the private sector as there probably aren’t any private sector schemes that are comparable now!

sidicks said:

That's totally irrational.
Regardless of whether they intend to stay in the NHS or not they'll still have earned themselves a very valuable pension for the time they have worked.

This comes from the scheme having been changed several times and retirement ages being pushed out. The question asked is “Can you absolutely guarantee it will pay out?” Of course the answer is “no”. Then you get the “I might be dead by then, I’d rather spend the money now” argument!

sidicks said:

She should be taking advantage of the massively subsidised benefit available to her!

She is!

[skyrover]

Struggling on 28 grand a year?

Some people don't live in the real world... Try visiting India or Brazil and see what life is like in a "middle income" society

[JagLover]

Mr GrimNasty said:

hadenough! said:

Nurses relying on food Banks? What's that all about then? Anything in it,
or sensationalist bullst?

In case you missed it, the nurse concerned is a Labour activist, the BBC 'forgot' to mention it.

I wondered where the story came from in May's interview on Sunday where it was raised as a question.

[Kermit power]

skyrover said:

Struggling on 28 grand a year?

Some people don't live in the real world... Try visiting India or Brazil and see what life is like in a "middle income" society

Well that's an interesting world view!

Are you suggesting that because some people live on less than $1,000 per annum, anyone earning more than that in the UK should feel content with their lot?

I just took a little look on Right Move. The cheapest available property to rent within 5 miles of me in Epsom is £425pcm. Then add on food costs, bills, clothing, public transport and a few other essentials, and you're rapidly going to be getting through that £28k gross income, surely?

Personally, I can't begin to imagine how anyone manages to keep a house over their heads on £28k.

[Lance Catamaran]

Kermit power said:

skyrover said:

Struggling on 28 grand a year?

Some people don't live in the real world... Try visiting India or Brazil and see what life is like in a "middle income" society

Well that's an interesting world view!

Are you suggesting that because some people live on less than $1,000 per annum, anyone earning more than that in the UK should feel content with their lot?

I just took a little look on Right Move. The cheapest available property to rent within 5 miles of me in Epsom is £425pcm. Then add on food costs, bills, clothing, public transport and a few other essentials, and you're rapidly going to be getting through that £28k gross income, surely?

Personally, I can't begin to imagine how anyone manages to keep a house over their heads on £28k.

Nonsense. I've lived by myself on almost half that income and paying more rent. Yes it meant no holidays or designer clothes, but it's perfectly doable. Even after bills that person would have £1000+ a month left over, so if they can't afford food they are doing something seriously wrong.

[RobGT81]

Kermit power said:

Personally, I can't begin to imagine how anyone manages to keep a house over their heads on £28k.

It's actually a piece of piss.

[amusingduck]

Kermit power said:

I just took a little look on Right Move. The cheapest available property to rent within 5 miles of me in Epsom is £425pcm. Then add on food costs, bills, clothing, public transport and a few other essentials, and you're rapidly going to be getting through that £28k gross income, surely?

Personally, I can't begin to imagine how anyone manages to keep a house over their heads on £28k.

£28k gross, including Student Loan repayment, and 2% pension contribution = £1734pm net ( https://listentotaxman.com/28000?plan=1&pensio... )

-425 rent = 1309
-400 food = 909
-150 utilities = 759
-300 car expenses = 459
-100 council tax = 359

£350 a month left after the basics. Plus, the basics could be done much cheaper than I have allowed for.

There is absolutely nothing difficult about living on £28k

[captainzep]

amusingduck said:

£28k gross, including Student Loan repayment, and 2% pension contribution = £1734pm net ( https://listentotaxman.com/28000?plan=1&pensio... )

-425 rent = 1309
-400 food = 909
-150 utilities = 759
-300 car expenses = 459
-100 council tax = 359

£350 a month left after the basics. Plus, the basics could be done much cheaper than I have allowed for.

There is absolutely nothing difficult about living on £28k

NHS pension contribution for anyone earning over £26,824 is 9.3%.

Some people (especially people who come to nursing slightly later on in life as many do), have things called "children". These are quite expensive.

[amusingduck]

captainzep said:

amusingduck said:

£28k gross, including Student Loan repayment, and 2% pension contribution = £1734pm net ( https://listentotaxman.com/28000?plan=1&pensio... )

-425 rent = 1309
-400 food = 909
-150 utilities = 759
-300 car expenses = 459
-100 council tax = 359

£350 a month left after the basics. Plus, the basics could be done much cheaper than I have allowed for.

There is absolutely nothing difficult about living on £28k

NHS pension contribution for anyone earning over £26,824 is 9.3%.

Some people (especially people who come to nursing slightly later on in life as many do), have things called "children". These are quite expensive.

Using 9% instead of 2% gives ~1570 a month. Which leaves them with £150 a month left over. Which is still plenty.

The average salary in the UK is ~£28k. How do people below that figure afford children?

[Sheepshanks]

captainzep said:

NHS pension contribution for anyone earning over £26,824 is 9.3%.

Suddenly the budget looks pretty tight,

captainzep said:

Some people (especially people who come to nursing slightly later on in life as many do), have things called "children". These are quite expensive.

Even the single ones are going to have a ton of other expenses. Clothes, for example. And are they expected to live like Nuns and never go out? Even something like getting invited to a friends wedding is going to wipe them out for a couple of months if it involves a bit of travelling.

[amusingduck]

Sheepshanks said:

captainzep said:

Some people (especially people who come to nursing slightly later on in life as many do), have things called "children". These are quite expensive.

Even the single ones are going to have a ton of other expenses. Clothes, for example. And are they expected to live like Nuns and never go out? Even something like getting invited to a friends wedding is going to wipe them out for a couple of months if it involves a bit of travelling.

You can't afford non-essential purchases on £28k? Give over!

[Kermit power]

amusingduck said:

captainzep said:

amusingduck said:

£28k gross, including Student Loan repayment, and 2% pension contribution = £1734pm net ( https://listentotaxman.com/28000?plan=1&pensio... )

-425 rent = 1309
-400 food = 909
-150 utilities = 759
-300 car expenses = 459
-100 council tax = 359

£350 a month left after the basics. Plus, the basics could be done much cheaper than I have allowed for.

There is absolutely nothing difficult about living on £28k

NHS pension contribution for anyone earning over £26,824 is 9.3%.

Some people (especially people who come to nursing slightly later on in life as many do), have things called "children". These are quite expensive.

Using 9% instead of 2% gives ~1570 a month. Which leaves them with £150 a month left over. Which is still plenty.

The average salary in the UK is ~£28k. How do people below that figure afford children?

That's all absolutely wonderful, until your fridge or your washing machine breaks down or you want to spend some money on some unimaginable luxury such as some new clothes! It might be a piece of piss to do if you live in the Midlands or the North, but not if you're in the South East, and strangely enough we need nurses here too.

I suspect that most people who trot out a list like that and then declare it to be simple to live on earn more than enough for them not to really notice the bumps in the road that people on lower wages might find crippling, given that there's absolutely no contingency built in.

[amusingduck]

Kermit power said:

amusingduck said:

captainzep said:

amusingduck said:

£28k gross, including Student Loan repayment, and 2% pension contribution = £1734pm net ( https://listentotaxman.com/28000?plan=1&pensio... )

-425 rent = 1309
-400 food = 909
-150 utilities = 759
-300 car expenses = 459
-100 council tax = 359

£350 a month left after the basics. Plus, the basics could be done much cheaper than I have allowed for.

There is absolutely nothing difficult about living on £28k

NHS pension contribution for anyone earning over £26,824 is 9.3%.

Some people (especially people who come to nursing slightly later on in life as many do), have things called "children". These are quite expensive.

Using 9% instead of 2% gives ~1570 a month. Which leaves them with £150 a month left over. Which is still plenty.

The average salary in the UK is ~£28k. How do people below that figure afford children?

That's all absolutely wonderful, until your fridge or your washing machine breaks down or you want to spend some money on some unimaginable luxury such as some new clothes! It might be a piece of piss to do if you live in the Midlands or the North, but not if you're in the South East, and strangely enough we need nurses here too.

I suspect that most people who trot out a list like that and then declare it to be simple to live on earn more than enough for them not to really notice the bumps in the road that people on lower wages might find crippling, given that there's absolutely no contingency built in.

I was renting a £475pm house on £1750pm take home last year. It was not difficult by any stretch of the imagination.

Living within your means is not a difficult concept.

[Oakey]

Sheepshanks said:

Even the single ones are going to have a ton of other expenses. Clothes, for example. And are they expected to live like Nuns and never go out? Even something like getting invited to a friends wedding is going to wipe them out for a couple of months if it involves a bit of travelling.

That's a first world problem right there

[gavsdavs]

amusingduck said:

£28k gross, including Student Loan repayment, and 2% pension contribution = £1734pm net ( https://listentotaxman.com/28000?plan=1&pensio... )

-425 rent = 1309
-400 food = 909
-150 utilities = 759
-300 car expenses = 459
-100 council tax = 359

£350 a month left after the basics. Plus, the basics could be done much cheaper than I have allowed for.

There is absolutely nothing difficult about living on £28k

If it's not too personal a question, how much do YOU live on ?

£425 a month will get you a room in zone 6, not an entire property. Do you flatshare ?

[Rovinghawk]

Kermit power said:

Some people (especially people who come to nursing slightly later on in life as many do), have things called "children". These are quite expensive.

Some of those people have spouses earning a wage.

Kermit power said:

That's all absolutely wonderful, until your fridge or your washing machine breaks

My local laundrette charges £4 for a wash.

Kermit power said:

It might be a piece of piss to do if you live in the Midlands or the North, but not if you're in the South East, and strangely enough we need nurses here too.

-425 rent = 1309
-400 food = 909
-150 utilities = 759
-300 car expenses = 459
-100 council tax = 359

Did you look at the figures? £100 per week is a lot of food, 150pcm is a lot of heating. I suspect they could be trimmed somewhat, even for the fattest nurses.

Kermit power said:

there's absolutely no contingency built in.

£350 pcm on those figures, more on more realistic figures. Not too bad.

[amusingduck]

gavsdavs said:

amusingduck said:

£28k gross, including Student Loan repayment, and 2% pension contribution = £1734pm net ( https://listentotaxman.com/28000?plan=1&pensio... )

-425 rent = 1309
-400 food = 909
-150 utilities = 759
-300 car expenses = 459
-100 council tax = 359

£350 a month left after the basics. Plus, the basics could be done much cheaper than I have allowed for.

There is absolutely nothing difficult about living on £28k

If it's not too personal a question, how much do YOU live on ?

£425 a month will get you a room in zone 6, not an entire property. Do you flatshare ?

I wouldn't choose to live in a £425 room when I could live elsewhere in a 3 bed house with a drive and a garden for £475

I was taking home £1750pm when I moved here, it wasn't anywhere near a struggle

[ATG]

Of course you can live on 28k. It isn't even a question; loads of people manage to do it, so obviously it is possible. But that's not really the point.

We are short of nurses. We need to make the career more attractive. One way of achieving that is to offer more money, but given that the money on offer is already fairly competitive, it isn't obvious that the crux of the problem is nurses' salaries. I imagine that the prospect of working for the NHS, which is always described as being in crisis and where morale is reported to be at rock bottom, ain't that attractive.

[fido]

I think the solution would be more attractive nurses. Then they would have a spouse to supplement their inadequate income, but who would in turn benefit from their better-than-average pension scheme in later years.

[gavsdavs]

amusingduck said:

I wouldn't choose to live in a £425 room when I could live elsewhere in a 3 bed house with a drive and a garden for £475

I was taking home £1750pm when I moved here, it wasn't anywhere near a struggle

Where can you do that ? Barra ? Mull ? That sounds entirely unrealistic for those south of Manchester.

edit - look i found one in a lovely area of Bradford:
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/proper...

I don't see a drive and a garden but nearly.

Edited by gavsdavs on Tuesday 2nd May 13:37

Edited by gavsdavs on Tuesday 2nd May 13:40