Bus crashes into supermarket

[Roofless Toothless]

Randy Winkman said:

citizensm1th said:

Hate to be the one to tell you this but certain sections ion of the professional driving profession are hoping that after brexit the working time directive and drivers hours legislation will be relaxed not tightened

Yes, isn't that the whole point of Brexit?

I wonder if they will be so enthusiastic when they realise those same Working Time regulations are the ones that guarantee their paid holidays?

[Shakermaker]

Roofless Toothless said:

I wonder if they will be so enthusiastic when they realise those same Working Time regulations are the ones that guarantee their paid holidays?

Pah. I know many people that I used to work with who could earn more money by being paid time and a half or double time for overtime on those days they were meant to be taking as holiday...

[alangla]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Some of the shenanigans that bus companies get up to in making long-distance services "local" beggar belief though. The favourite trick appears to be to have a series of short journeys, with "guaranteed connections" at the end points. The timetables even show this as being the same bus (and, presumably, the same driver in most cases). This example is one of Stagecoach's but everyone is at it - https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com... - 5 services stuck together, all with the same service number, on a route that's at least 105 miles long.

[Gareth79]

ShampooEfficient said:

In the interim depots usually have a couple of spare drivers.

A friend of mine is a full-time mechanic in a depot but is also licensed for bus/PCV and so does last-resort cover (last-resort because the repairs very quickly stack up if they aren't working!)

[Robertj21a]

alangla said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Some of the shenanigans that bus companies get up to in making long-distance services "local" beggar belief though. The favourite trick appears to be to have a series of short journeys, with "guaranteed connections" at the end points. The timetables even show this as being the same bus (and, presumably, the same driver in most cases). This example is one of Stagecoach's but everyone is at it - https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com... - 5 services stuck together, all with the same service number, on a route that's at least 105 miles long.

Although you're quite correct that operators get round the EU requirements by linking together a number of shorter sections (so as to come under Domestic Hours regulations), it's only the bus that will cover the whole distance. The drivers get changed over at key points. In practice, for the driver, it makes little difference if he drives 30 miles as part of a longer route, or 30 miles that covers the whole route. The key point is that he needs proper breaks, regardless of how the route is structured.

[Digga]

Gareth79 said:

A friend of mine is a full-time mechanic in a depot but is also licensed for bus/PCV and so does last-resort cover (last-resort because the repairs very quickly stack up if they aren't working!)

As I've said, the disparity of vehicle quality between differing areas is remarkable. Around here, the operator is Arriva. A few years back, on my way into work, I saw a large object in the middle of a roundabout. It was big enough for my first thought to be "do I brake or can I drive over it?" and, on closer inspection as I decided it was okay to drive over, it was a large con rod. Around the bend from the exit of the roundabout was a large oil slick and, with its back end caked in smoke and oil, the stranded bus that said con rod was ejected from, replete with stranded passengers, all of whom would be late in to work/school/college that morning.

The contrast between these relics and the posh, new buses I saw up in the Lake District last week is amazing.

[Robertj21a]

Digga said:

As I've said, the disparity of vehicle quality between differing areas is remarkable. Around here, the operator is Arriva. A few years back, on my way into work, I saw a large object in the middle of a roundabout. It was big enough for my first thought to be "do I brake or can I drive over it?" and, on closer inspection as I decided it was okay to drive over, it was a large con rod. Around the bend from the exit of the roundabout was a large oil slick and, with its back end caked in smoke and oil, the stranded bus that said con rod was ejected from, replete with stranded passengers, all of whom would be late in to work/school/college that morning.

The contrast between these relics and the posh, new buses I saw up in the Lake District last week is amazing.

Buses break down, whether new or old, regardless of the operator. Cars, lorries and vans also break down.........

[alangla]

Robertj21a said:

Although you're quite correct that operators get round the EU requirements by linking together a number of shorter sections (so as to come under Domestic Hours regulations), it's only the bus that will cover the whole distance. The drivers get changed over at key points. In practice, for the driver, it makes little difference if he drives 30 miles as part of a longer route, or 30 miles that covers the whole route. The key point is that he needs proper breaks, regardless of how the route is structured.

Yep - very true. At least with the EU rules, as I understand it, the vehicles have to be fitted with tachographs which should ensure the rules are being followed, under domestic rules, is there any direct enforcement? (I'm asking - I genuinely don't know)

[Robertj21a]

alangla said:

Robertj21a said:

Although you're quite correct that operators get round the EU requirements by linking together a number of shorter sections (so as to come under Domestic Hours regulations), it's only the bus that will cover the whole distance. The drivers get changed over at key points. In practice, for the driver, it makes little difference if he drives 30 miles as part of a longer route, or 30 miles that covers the whole route. The key point is that he needs proper breaks, regardless of how the route is structured.

Yep - very true. At least with the EU rules, as I understand it, the vehicles have to be fitted with tachographs which should ensure the rules are being followed, under domestic rules, is there any direct enforcement? (I'm asking - I genuinely don't know)

It's not so clear cut. As far as I know, the operator is required to retain all the necessary records concerning all stage carriage operation, for any random review by the DVSA.

[Einion Yrth]

Robertj21a said:

Digga said:

As I've said, the disparity of vehicle quality between differing areas is remarkable. Around here, the operator is Arriva. A few years back, on my way into work, I saw a large object in the middle of a roundabout. It was big enough for my first thought to be "do I brake or can I drive over it?" and, on closer inspection as I decided it was okay to drive over, it was a large con rod. Around the bend from the exit of the roundabout was a large oil slick and, with its back end caked in smoke and oil, the stranded bus that said con rod was ejected from, replete with stranded passengers, all of whom would be late in to work/school/college that morning.

The contrast between these relics and the posh, new buses I saw up in the Lake District last week is amazing.

Buses break down, whether new or old, regardless of the operator. Cars, lorries and vans also break down.........

If any of the above break down by throwing a con-rod, they have been very badly maintained, and I would expect sanctions if others have been seriously inconvenienced.

[rambo19]

ShampooEfficient said:

Kccv23highliftcam said:

And what happens if you should DARE to call in sick?

IME, you get treated like you are being absolutely selfish and inconsiderate. Then they start scrabbling round for someone to cover your shift, often by ringing drivers on their rest days.
In the interim depots usually have a couple of spare drivers.

I worked as a bus driver for 10yrs.
If you call in sick on 3 different occasions within a year, you got a written warning.

[rambo19]

Robertj21a said:

Digga said:

As I've said, the disparity of vehicle quality between differing areas is remarkable. Around here, the operator is Arriva. A few years back, on my way into work, I saw a large object in the middle of a roundabout. It was big enough for my first thought to be "do I brake or can I drive over it?" and, on closer inspection as I decided it was okay to drive over, it was a large con rod. Around the bend from the exit of the roundabout was a large oil slick and, with its back end caked in smoke and oil, the stranded bus that said con rod was ejected from, replete with stranded passengers, all of whom would be late in to work/school/college that morning.

The contrast between these relics and the posh, new buses I saw up in the Lake District last week is amazing.

Buses break down, whether new or old, regardless of the operator. Cars, lorries and vans also break down.........

Every bus company I worked for had terrible maintainence of its buses.
Buses breaking down for the same fault over and over.
If it moves, the company will send it out!

[SWTH]

Robertj21a said:

Although you're quite correct that operators get round the EU requirements by linking together a number of shorter sections (so as to come under Domestic Hours regulations), it's only the bus that will cover the whole distance. The drivers get changed over at key points. In practice, for the driver, it makes little difference if he drives 30 miles as part of a longer route, or 30 miles that covers the whole route. The key point is that he needs proper breaks, regardless of how the route is structured.

Not always, sadly. If, in the example of a 5-part 105 mile route the whole run can be completed within 5hr 30m then one driver will be on it all the way.

I used to work in the bus industry, it nearly put me over the edge. I've done local service, coach work, the odd bit of tour work and private hire. Also done office and workshop based roles when needed.

Hours - my last full time role meant I was working 75hr weeks continuously, doing the absolute maximum just to try and break through taking home £400 a week. Bear in mind breaks generally aren't paid, so I was only paid in the region of 60-63hrs a week at £7.90 p/h. Holidays were paid at the standard 8hrs a day, so weeks off were rare because I couldn't afford to drop £140. I drove when I was fatigued, I drove when I was ill. I once had to take a day off and got my wife to phone in - the supervisor who answered the phone berated my wife over my absence, demanding that she force me to go in and tell me to stop being so lazy. The longest stretch I worked was 33 days running - current GB domestic rules are that a driver can work up to 13 days straight, then they must have a 24hr break. However, that 24hrs starts the moment the driver books off, so a driver can book off at 1400 on day 13 and effectively reset the day count by booking on at 1401 the next day. I drove buses that were held together with hopes, prayers and duct tape, I got abuse every day from passengers who were demanding to know why their service had gone to cock yet again because the same vehicles were failing time after time. I got harassed on the rare days off or holiday days that I took to come in and work, even if I turned the phone off there would be missed calls and texts saying about uncovered work.

The worst day was not long before I got the news of getting a much better job in a different industry - I was driving along in a double decker and suddenly realised I had no idea where I was going or what I should be doing. I was drawing a total blank as to what route I was on, where I should go next, or even why I was there. I pulled over and just sat there in dumb silence trying to make sense of it all, even looking at the route card didn't give any answers - it might as well have been blank. Luckily I had no passengers on. That scared me enough to go see the doctor though the company were against me doing so in case there was something that would affect my licence - "just take a day off, you'll be fine" was their strictly non-medical advice. The Doc reckoned I'd been so heavily overworked that I'd suffered a minor breakdown - he advised a week off but I couldn't afford it because the bus industry generally only pays SSP.

The sad fact is drivers are pushed to the very limits of what they can do, just to keep the job going. The pay is st which means the drivers work every hour going to try and earn a decent amount, a stuation most companies are only too happy to exploit.

After trying for several years to find a way out I finally left the industry and a few days later doused my uniform in diesel and used it to light up a steam loco - the release I got from seeing it all burn felt like a massive weight had been lifted from me at the same time as the shackles around my feet were taken off. Sounds daft but when in my darkest days I couldn't see a way out that was the moment I dreamed of:


Seems the uploader has turned the pic sideways, but that fire is all my old uniform going. I enjoyed watching that.

I really hope this case turns the spotlight on how dodgy the bus industry is in general, but I just know it'll be half-mumbled promises of making sure safety comes first (after everything else) and within a week or two nobody will remember it.

[BlackLabel]

“A bus company that ignored warnings about a driver who crashed into a supermarket, killing two people, has been fined £2.3m.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-war...

[Reciprocating mass]

rambo19 said:

Every bus company I worked for had terrible maintainence of its buses.
Buses breaking down for the same fault over and over.
If it moves, the company will send it out!

If you new the state of there workshop pits you would understand why

[valiant]

Lessons will be learned.

Procedures in place to stop it happening again.

That is until the a bus is short of a driver and instead of cancelling it they'll ask a driver coming to the end of his shift to put a few more hours in or be ringing around for drivers on rest days who've just finished working 7 days straight.

I wonder if they've actually employed more drivers to act as 'spare' to cover absence or just fiddled the rotas to look like they have...

[Robertj21a]

BlackLabel said:

“A bus company that ignored warnings about a driver who crashed into a supermarket, killing two people, has been fined £2.3m.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-war...

Terrible. Even more worrying is that it's Stagecoach - probably considered to be one of the most professional of all the UK bus companies.