Meanwhile in Poland

[irocfan]

interesting that the sanction seems to be specifically against extreme RW (which to be fair I agree with) but no mention is made of left.... the worrying thing I guess is what does the EU define as extreme?

[handpaper]

irocfan said:

interesting that the sanction seems to be specifically against extreme RW (which to be fair I agree with) but no mention is made of left.... the worrying thing I guess is what does the EU define as extreme?

Well, in recent times, anyone opposing "ever closer union".

Incidentally, I don't know of any party in Europe that I'd call "far right". Those that are referred to as such, on examination of their policies, tend to be some flavour of the Left, with a tendency toward authoritarianism. For me, the values of the Right are a small State and an emphasis on personal freedom and responsibility. The extreme Right would therefore be Anarchist.

[CaptainSlow]

So the EU supports democracy...as long as the results go their way. If not then you're threatened.

We've seen how the elected Prime Minister of the UK was forced to beg unelected bureaucrats for minor reforms (and didn't get them). The people of he UK will soon be the first to democratically give up their democratic rights since 1930s Germany.

[speedy_thrills]

Murph7355 said:

As I was reading this I was thinking of the parallels with the BBC.

I was drawing parallels with other situations much more readily.

PiS have also taken much tighter control of the security and civil services as well as dismissing judges on the constitutional tribunal before their term had expired and changing the way it operates to lessen it's effectiveness.

Ryszard Terlecki head of PiS’s parliamentary caucus: "If the media imagine that for the next few weeks they will be absorbing Poles’ attention with criticism of our changes or policies, then that has to be stopped."

Seems legit .

Edited by speedy_thrills on Monday 29th February 03:25

[anonymous-user]

An interesting read:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8238e15a-db46-11e5-a72f-...

My girlfriend is posh Polish and a sometime economist. She reckons that the country is in the skip.

[Esseesse]

Breadvan72 said:

An interesting read:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8238e15a-db46-11e5-a72f-...

My girlfriend is posh Polish and a sometime economist. She reckons that the country is in the skip.

A heads up for those that do not subscribe to the FT... If you come in via a google search (not google news) then you can read the article.

https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=ssl&ei=_x7UVu...

[anonymous-user]

Cheers, yes, that's how I found it. I only read the FT at weekends.

[BlackLabel]

WARSAW (Reuters) - Lawmakers from Poland's ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party on Wednesday pushed through a bill to give parliament a greater say in appointing judges, a move that the opposition and rights groups said violated the constitutional separation of powers.

And the EU aren't happy.

[PorkRind]

Octoposse said:

The Guardian getting pretty excised about this as well, commentator demanding 'EU action'. Personally I don't feel that it's the business of anyone who isn't Polish, just as I'm not interested in the views of, say, the average Saudi Arabian as to how we should organise our society.

Spot on.

[anonymous-user]

That is I suggest a naive view. Threats to the rule of law in nations that we trade and ally with can have negative impacts on us all. The world is connected.

There is also a moral dimension, especially as you mention Saudi Arabia. A country that criminalises people for their sexuality, which flogs women for being rape victims, which arrests women for driving cars, and so on, is not a country that we should be sucking up to. Back to the non moral view - stuff like that can foment unrest and instability, and that can be bad for us.

[scherzkeks]

Octoposse said:

The Guardian getting pretty excised about this as well, commentator demanding 'EU action'. Personally I don't feel that it's the business of anyone who isn't Polish, just as I'm not interested in the views of, say, the average Saudi Arabian as to how we should organise our society.

They committed the unforgivable sin of closing their borders.

The move to destroy national sovereignty is well underway in the West, and the propaganda mills are running at full tilt. Laws that give the Polish government more control over media are the last thing the Open Society set wants.

[anonymous-user]

Probably only on PH would the idea of an open society be seen as a bad thing. What is the big deal with national sovereignty? Nation States are relatively recent inventions, and their borders are not visible from space. To take one example, the polity now known as the UK has for large chunks of its history (including the history of its predecessor polities) comprised bits of several land masses (Britain, Ireland, parts of Europe) and contained many language groups.

Free media, for all their faults and excesses, can be bulwarks of freedom, so why cheer for laws that curb media freedom?

[jjlynn27]

Breadvan72 said:

Probably only on PH would the idea of an open society be seen as a bad thing. What is the big deal with national sovereignty? Nation States are relatively recent inventions, and their borders are not visible from space. To take one example, the polity now known as the UK has for large chunks of its history (including the history of its predecessor polities) comprised bits of several land masses (Britain, Ireland, parts of Europe) and contained many language groups.

Free media, for all their faults and excesses, can be bulwarks of freedom, so why cheer for laws that curb media freedom?

You are new here, aren't you? Immigrant sympathiser you! Apologist! Suverenty is verry impertunt. And our laws, we want our laws not Brussels elite ones. And judges whose names we can pronounce. And fewer moslamic ray guns. Definitely fewer muslamics. They are bad hombres.

[Nothingtoseehere]

jjlynn27 said:

You are new here,

[Camoradi]

Breadvan72 said:

Probably only on PH would the idea of an open society be seen as a bad thing. What is the big deal with national sovereignty? Nation States are relatively recent inventions, and their borders are not visible from space. To take one example, the polity now known as the UK has for large chunks of its history (including the history of its predecessor polities) comprised bits of several land masses (Britain, Ireland, parts of Europe) and contained many language groups.

Free media, for all their faults and excesses, can be bulwarks of freedom, so why cheer for laws that curb media freedom?

Rather inconveniently, most of the borders of the UK are visible from space, with the exception of the NI / Eire border.

[Nothingtoseehere]

Camoradi said:

Rather inconveniently, most of the borders of the UK are visible from space, with the exception of the NI / Eire border.

Quite easy to work out North Korea at night as well.
I'm sure he'll be well up for it as well...

[anonymous-user]

The N/S Korean border is of course a fairly recent accident of warfare, as are quite a few borders (along with some drawn on maps by well intentioned but sometimes daft Diplomats in the Imperial era). The N/S Ireland border may be getting rather more visible than we might wish if Brexit doesn't go well (is there a universe in which it does go well, I wonder?)

[scherzkeks]

Breadvan72 said:

Probably only on PH would the idea of an open society be seen as a bad thing. What is the big deal with national sovereignty? Nation States are relatively recent inventions, and their borders are not visible from space. To take one example, the polity now known as the UK has for large chunks of its history (including the history of its predecessor polities) comprised bits of several land masses (Britain, Ireland, parts of Europe) and contained many language groups.

Free media, for all their faults and excesses, can be bulwarks of freedom, so why cheer for laws that curb media freedom?

Concentrated power is the problem, and this is the end goal of the open society movement.

No idea what you are on about with mainstream media and freedom. Due to the conglomeration in recent decades and the fact that messages and narratives are tightly controlled to the point that you can pick out the talking points word for word across 4 major MSM players and their affiliates, the idea that we have a free press is quite the fantasy.

[Hayek]

Breadvan72 said:

Probably only on PH would the idea of an open society be seen as a bad thing. What is the big deal with national sovereignty? Nation States are relatively recent inventions, and their borders are not visible from space. To take one example, the polity now known as the UK has for large chunks of its history (including the history of its predecessor polities) comprised bits of several land masses (Britain, Ireland, parts of Europe) and contained many language groups.

Free media, for all their faults and excesses, can be bulwarks of freedom, so why cheer for laws that curb media freedom?

Previous to nation states and/or border controls, migration was far more difficult and the welfare state didn't exist. The problem comes with a welfare state AND free/easy movement.

[John145]

Breadvan72 said:

Probably only on PH would the idea of an open society be seen as a bad thing. What is the big deal with national sovereignty? Nation States are relatively recent inventions, and their borders are not visible from space. To take one example, the polity now known as the UK has for large chunks of its history (including the history of its predecessor polities) comprised bits of several land masses (Britain, Ireland, parts of Europe) and contained many language groups.

Free media, for all their faults and excesses, can be bulwarks of freedom, so why cheer for laws that curb media freedom?

In an equal world the nation state makes no sense. However we aren't in an equal world and we are some generations away from it. Ignoring the inequalities that exist and pushing through the global citizen idea leads to mass immigration.

The world needs an open trade and open competition mentality but movements must be restricted. Whilst the UK and Western Europe pilfer the brightest how do we ever expect equality to spread?

The Nation state also exists to protect our freedoms. The freedoms enjoyed by my immediate family would be punishable by jail or death only a few hundred miles away...