Meanwhile in Poland
Discussion
jurbie said:
Polish Death Camps is a very touchy subject and rightfully so because there weren't any Polish death camps. There were German death camps in German occupied Poland but definitely no Polish run ones.
You probably think I'm being facetious now because of course everyone knows it was the Germans running them and mostly it is just lazy journalism that uses the term Polish death camp but it's subtle changes like this which help shift perceptions and distort the historical record.
Does that seem unlikely? My parents are involved in recording the history of the Poles who settled in the UK after the war and very occasionally they get the opportunity for little media appearances. Whilst preparing for one such appearance it turned out the young BBC researcher they were dealing with genuinely believed that Poland was part of the Axis powers in the war.
With that sort of ignorance evident inside our national broadcastor I would suggest it's not worth taking the risk and any examples of this kind of lazy journalism need to be called out immediately. Whether a law is required is possibly a step too far but it is certainly a reaction to how prevalent this problem is and how seriously it's taken in Poland.
My grandfather fled Poland during the war, would they have information on him?You probably think I'm being facetious now because of course everyone knows it was the Germans running them and mostly it is just lazy journalism that uses the term Polish death camp but it's subtle changes like this which help shift perceptions and distort the historical record.
Does that seem unlikely? My parents are involved in recording the history of the Poles who settled in the UK after the war and very occasionally they get the opportunity for little media appearances. Whilst preparing for one such appearance it turned out the young BBC researcher they were dealing with genuinely believed that Poland was part of the Axis powers in the war.
With that sort of ignorance evident inside our national broadcastor I would suggest it's not worth taking the risk and any examples of this kind of lazy journalism need to be called out immediately. Whether a law is required is possibly a step too far but it is certainly a reaction to how prevalent this problem is and how seriously it's taken in Poland.
Oakey said:
My grandfather fled Poland during the war, would they have information on him?
There won't be anything too specific, it was a personal project that sort of went out of control but may help to fill in some blanks if you already know a few bits. If you know what year he arrived in the UK then we have the majority of the passengers lists available. Not searchable I'm afraid as my mother's coding skills don't stretch that far but you can easily search them by hand.http://www.polishresettlementcampsintheuk.co.uk/pa...
If he joined the Polish army and you know which unit he was in then you can see which resettlement camp he likely ended up and conversely if you know which camp he was in you could take a punt at which unit he was in.
http://www.polishresettlementcampsintheuk.co.uk/PR...
If you know which camp he was in then we have general information on most of the camps, mostly what life was like rather than who was there but gives an idea.
http://www.polishresettlementcampsintheuk.co.uk/ca...
Ancestry.co.uk are also worth a go, their free search feature is actually quite good for this as it will certainly throw up some other ship passenger lists which we don't have. If he was in the army then the Sikorski Institute in London will also likely have his service record.
Feel free to drop me a PM with any details you have and I'll see if I can point you in the right direction. I know people who have been in a similar position as you and ended up finding a pile of relatives in Poland who they didn't know existed.
Poland (and Hungary) continue to stick two fingers up to the EU.
"Polish president attacks EU as an ‘imaginary community’
Andrzej Duda says country should be able to decide its own affairs
Poland’s president Andrzej Duda has lambasted the EU as an “imaginary community from which we don’t gain much”, in the latest sign of the fractured relationship between Warsaw and Brussels."
https://www.ft.com/content/3675c1d8-b673-11e8-b3ef...
Poland ups the ante against Brussels
President Duda’s anti-EU comments and chaos in the country’s Supreme Court worsen relations with the EU.
https://www.politico.eu/article/poland-andrzej-dud...
"Polish president attacks EU as an ‘imaginary community’
Andrzej Duda says country should be able to decide its own affairs
Poland’s president Andrzej Duda has lambasted the EU as an “imaginary community from which we don’t gain much”, in the latest sign of the fractured relationship between Warsaw and Brussels."
https://www.ft.com/content/3675c1d8-b673-11e8-b3ef...
Poland ups the ante against Brussels
President Duda’s anti-EU comments and chaos in the country’s Supreme Court worsen relations with the EU.
https://www.politico.eu/article/poland-andrzej-dud...
I'm not really sure I understand the approach of either.
To say they get nothing from the EU is stretching things an awful lot. Whether what they get is worth the price is for them to assess, but what are the alternatives for them? Closer ties with Russia?
Do they both think they have some degree of hold over Germany and co due to the integration of supply chains, provision of cheap resource etc such that despite them being net recipients they can push for more autonomy too?
(I'm obviously one who agrees with the general principle that the nation states in the Union should be free to rule themselves as they see fit and that the Union was a good thing as a trading bloc and has overstretched...but it comes to something when very net recipients kick off).
To say they get nothing from the EU is stretching things an awful lot. Whether what they get is worth the price is for them to assess, but what are the alternatives for them? Closer ties with Russia?
Do they both think they have some degree of hold over Germany and co due to the integration of supply chains, provision of cheap resource etc such that despite them being net recipients they can push for more autonomy too?
(I'm obviously one who agrees with the general principle that the nation states in the Union should be free to rule themselves as they see fit and that the Union was a good thing as a trading bloc and has overstretched...but it comes to something when very net recipients kick off).
Robertj21a said:
As you say, interesting when the net recipients 'kick off'. You'd like to think that the EU might consider it worthwhile looking at what it is that makes them so unhappy.
Unfortunately, they won't.
Problem is that like here, without immigrants we will be in big trouble in 15 years time Unfortunately, they won't.
Tryke3 said:
Robertj21a said:
As you say, interesting when the net recipients 'kick off'. You'd like to think that the EU might consider it worthwhile looking at what it is that makes them so unhappy.
Unfortunately, they won't.
Problem is that like here, without immigrants we will be in big trouble in 15 years time Unfortunately, they won't.
Tryke3 said:
Robertj21a said:
As you say, interesting when the net recipients 'kick off'. You'd like to think that the EU might consider it worthwhile looking at what it is that makes them so unhappy.
Unfortunately, they won't.
Problem is that like here, without immigrants we will be in big trouble in 15 years time Unfortunately, they won't.
The answer is actually with proper planning the losers will be large companies earning quick money off cheap labour whilst the winners will be pretty much everyone else.
15 years is plenty of time to train a new generation of whoever you need but naturally they’ll demand a higher salary and lo and behold wealth moves downwards.
Net immigration is not a requirement for a successful economy.
83HP said:
Tryke3 said:
Problem is that like here, without immigrants we will be in big trouble in 15 years time
But Poland has been taking in migrants from the likes of Ukraine and Georgia Also from Belarus, Vietnam and China.
The kind of immigrants the EU want them to take, in the form of refugee quotas, will in any case only add to the pressure on public finances brought about by an ageing population.
egomeister said:
John145 said:
Net immigration is not a requirement for a successful economy.
No, but it supports a social security ponzi schemehttps://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/20...
JagLover said:
egomeister said:
John145 said:
Net immigration is not a requirement for a successful economy.
No, but it supports a social security ponzi schemehttps://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/20...
The three poorest groups in the UK are all immigrants/ descent and are taking more out of the system than they pay in. They then get old and require looking after, they are in the main a drain.
The idea that poorly educated poorly skilled migrants from the third world are a great benefit to western society is laughable.
Edited by del mar on Sunday 16th September 18:58
I have mentioned this before but my admittedly poor man maths calculates that an immigrant family of four would need to have a household income of at least 55k to be net contributors.
With the rise of the automation era I really don't understand the need for a huge influx of low skilled workers.
With the rise of the automation era I really don't understand the need for a huge influx of low skilled workers.
272BHP said:
I have mentioned this before but my admittedly poor man maths calculates that an immigrant family of four would need to have a household income of at least 55k to be net contributors.
With the rise of the automation era I really don't understand the need for a huge influx of low skilled workers.
as an end in of itself.With the rise of the automation era I really don't understand the need for a huge influx of low skilled workers.
Once you understand that western politics becomes clearer.
Putin is agitating right across eastern Europe including Poland.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/...
https://nordic.businessinsider.com/journalist-who-...
atlantic said:
Russia Is Co-opting Angry Young Men, Fight clubs, neo-Nazi soccer hooligans, and motorcycle gangs serve as conduits for the Kremlin’s influence operations in Western countries.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/08/...https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/...
https://nordic.businessinsider.com/journalist-who-...
JagLover said:
272BHP said:
I have mentioned this before but my admittedly poor man maths calculates that an immigrant family of four would need to have a household income of at least 55k to be net contributors.
With the rise of the automation era I really don't understand the need for a huge influx of low skilled workers.
as an end in of itself.With the rise of the automation era I really don't understand the need for a huge influx of low skilled workers.
Once you understand that western politics becomes clearer.
Migrant turns up - no fiscal contribution
Gets married - wife no fiscal contribution
Larger than average family size - 4 kids all costing the host country a fortune.
As first / second generation 1 might go to University.
That is 25 - 30 years before one makes a contribution.
The parents get old and expect looking after.
Bring in more immigrants and so on...
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