Can we talk about Germany for a bit?
Discussion
amusingduck said:
Financial Times: Germany steps up hunt for migrant workers amid fears for economy.
https://www.ft.com/content/e59457d4-2002-11ea-b8a1...
Germany needs even more migration to save the economy apparently!
Hmmm, I wondr how quickly I could learn a decent level of German, I always enjoy it when I visit, but know I would struggle trying to live and work there (full time) without a mastery of the language.https://www.ft.com/content/e59457d4-2002-11ea-b8a1...
Germany needs even more migration to save the economy apparently!
prand said:
amusingduck said:
Financial Times: Germany steps up hunt for migrant workers amid fears for economy.
https://www.ft.com/content/e59457d4-2002-11ea-b8a1...
Germany needs even more migration to save the economy apparently!
Hmmm, I wondr how quickly I could learn a decent level of German, I always enjoy it when I visit, but know I would struggle trying to live and work there (full time) without a mastery of the language.https://www.ft.com/content/e59457d4-2002-11ea-b8a1...
Germany needs even more migration to save the economy apparently!
amusingduck said:
Financial Times: Germany steps up hunt for migrant workers amid fears for economy.
https://www.ft.com/content/e59457d4-2002-11ea-b8a1...
Germany needs even more migration to save the economy apparently!
Well when you say "even more". Most of those brought in by Merkel's mad decision to open the borders had no useful skills for a first world economy. https://www.ft.com/content/e59457d4-2002-11ea-b8a1...
Germany needs even more migration to save the economy apparently!
amusingduck said:
Financial Times: Germany steps up hunt for migrant workers amid fears for economy.
https://www.ft.com/content/e59457d4-2002-11ea-b8a1...
Germany needs even more migration to save the economy apparently!
The age profile of the German population is seems quite skewed in comparison to our own.https://www.ft.com/content/e59457d4-2002-11ea-b8a1...
Germany needs even more migration to save the economy apparently!
https://www.statista.com/statistics/454349/populat...
https://www.statista.com/statistics/281174/uk-popu...
Perhaps that's why they need immigrants?
Mothersruin said:
prand said:
amusingduck said:
Financial Times: Germany steps up hunt for migrant workers amid fears for economy.
https://www.ft.com/content/e59457d4-2002-11ea-b8a1...
Germany needs even more migration to save the economy apparently!
Hmmm, I wondr how quickly I could learn a decent level of German, I always enjoy it when I visit, but know I would struggle trying to live and work there (full time) without a mastery of the language.https://www.ft.com/content/e59457d4-2002-11ea-b8a1...
Germany needs even more migration to save the economy apparently!
prand said:
amusingduck said:
Financial Times: Germany steps up hunt for migrant workers amid fears for economy.
https://www.ft.com/content/e59457d4-2002-11ea-b8a1...
Germany needs even more migration to save the economy apparently!
Hmmm, I wondr how quickly I could learn a decent level of German, I always enjoy it when I visit, but know I would struggle trying to live and work there (full time) without a mastery of the language.https://www.ft.com/content/e59457d4-2002-11ea-b8a1...
Germany needs even more migration to save the economy apparently!
amusingduck said:
Financial Times: Germany steps up hunt for migrant workers amid fears for economy.
https://www.ft.com/content/e59457d4-2002-11ea-b8a1...
Germany needs even more migration to save the economy apparently!
They have eastern Europe on their door steps free to move, so why aren't they moving? Do German minimum wage not compare to UK mum wage + (income tax credits etc). https://www.ft.com/content/e59457d4-2002-11ea-b8a1...
Germany needs even more migration to save the economy apparently!
hyphen said:
They have eastern Europe on their door steps free to move, so why aren't they moving? Do German minimum wage not compare to UK mum wage + (income tax credits etc).
Very interesting question that.Minimum wages are comparable I think, € 9.35 from 2020. Taxes are generally higher, but in that income bracket next to no difference. It's not what this is about though.
This political initiative is aimed at changing the laws so that (very) skilled labour can more easily immigrate. At least double or triple the wage. One could speculate that the really qualified in eastern Europe probably have either already left their home countries or started their own businesses at home (often an enterprise feeding the German supply chain).
The rallying cry of the industry is "Fachkräftemangel" -> shortage of qualified / certified staff. Allegedly at least some 300k skilled labour positions vacant right now, with little chance of getting them filled (roughly half IT half mechanical / electrical specialists). Slowing growth and profits obviously.
Perhaps that's the downside to an Industrial landscape with very high productivity. There's no shortage of fork lift drivers, but black belt controls specialists are harder to come by.
Complex issue really. Don't have the time to go much deeper right right now. Also think the audience on this and similar threads in NPE are really looking more for self confirmation (the UK is just doing alright) or Schadenfreude -- rather than really "talking about *Country*" and gaining some real insight :-/.
I honestly think the whole issue with or amazement at learning a second language thing is a British hang up. I can only speak for the part of South West Germany that I live in but I’d estimate that a half to three quarters of people here speak at least two languages. The majority of those coming to this part of Germany are not illiterate immigrants, they are resourceful and hardworking people looking for a better life. The idea that the streets are full of Syrian refugees is simply nonsense, at least in the area around where I live. You may well hear quite a lot of Turkish in certain areas (generally third or fourth generations of guest workers by now) but hearing Arabic isn’t too common.
For clarity’s sake, I moved to Germany six and a half years ago with no German whatsoever. One generally needs the luxury of time without income to do so but I attended language school for around a year. I wouldn’t say that made me fluent but just through usage and time I am now. I also accepted the fact that I wouldn’t get a job in my previous profession in the UK and took an apprenticeship in mechanical engineering. As that apprenticeship was all taught in German and includes examinations in economics, sociology and German one is definitely throw in at the deep end. I ended up with a job through a work placement that was part of my apprenticeship, although I’ve ended up back in an office despite promising myself to do more hands on work.
For clarity’s sake, I moved to Germany six and a half years ago with no German whatsoever. One generally needs the luxury of time without income to do so but I attended language school for around a year. I wouldn’t say that made me fluent but just through usage and time I am now. I also accepted the fact that I wouldn’t get a job in my previous profession in the UK and took an apprenticeship in mechanical engineering. As that apprenticeship was all taught in German and includes examinations in economics, sociology and German one is definitely throw in at the deep end. I ended up with a job through a work placement that was part of my apprenticeship, although I’ve ended up back in an office despite promising myself to do more hands on work.
RedWhiteMonkey said:
I honestly think the whole issue with or amazement at learning a second language thing is a British hang up. I can only speak for the part of South West Germany that I live in but I’d estimate that a half to three quarters of people here speak at least two languages. The majority of those coming to this part of Germany are not illiterate immigrants, they are resourceful and hardworking people looking for a better life. The idea that the streets are full of Syrian refugees is simply nonsense, at least in the area around where I live. You may well hear quite a lot of Turkish in certain areas (generally third or fourth generations of guest workers by now) but hearing Arabic isn’t too common.
For clarity’s sake, I moved to Germany six and a half years ago with no German whatsoever. One generally needs the luxury of time without income to do so but I attended language school for around a year. I wouldn’t say that made me fluent but just through usage and time I am now. I also accepted the fact that I wouldn’t get a job in my previous profession in the UK and took an apprenticeship in mechanical engineering. As that apprenticeship was all taught in German and includes examinations in economics, sociology and German one is definitely throw in at the deep end. I ended up with a job through a work placement that was part of my apprenticeship, although I’ve ended up back in an office despite promising myself to do more hands on work.
I moved from Australian to Bavaria 5 years back with very basic German. It was a great move. If you don't mind working there are loads of opportunities to have a god life, wherever you are from.For clarity’s sake, I moved to Germany six and a half years ago with no German whatsoever. One generally needs the luxury of time without income to do so but I attended language school for around a year. I wouldn’t say that made me fluent but just through usage and time I am now. I also accepted the fact that I wouldn’t get a job in my previous profession in the UK and took an apprenticeship in mechanical engineering. As that apprenticeship was all taught in German and includes examinations in economics, sociology and German one is definitely throw in at the deep end. I ended up with a job through a work placement that was part of my apprenticeship, although I’ve ended up back in an office despite promising myself to do more hands on work.
Gromm said:
hyphen said:
They have eastern Europe on their door steps free to move, so why aren't they moving? Do German minimum wage not compare to UK mum wage + (income tax credits etc).
Language, everyone speaks at least rudimentary English, far fewer checks, lesser forms to fill etc and significantly better earning potential as many more people washing their cars on Sundays.
Well it's not verboten, yet, although you can see it next in line of enviro-outrage.Kawasicki said:
I moved from Australian to Bavaria 5 years back with very basic German. It was a great move. If you don't mind working there are loads of opportunities to have a god life, wherever you are from.
Moved 9 years ago to Hessen, and agree to your point. Added bonus : companies & people don't expect perfect German. In our small (250 people) company you have 30 nationalities speaking German with wildly varying accents/proficiency. It works and the Germans never comment on it.
NAS said:
Kawasicki said:
I moved from Australian to Bavaria 5 years back with very basic German. It was a great move. If you don't mind working there are loads of opportunities to have a god life, wherever you are from.
Moved 9 years ago to Hessen, and agree to your point. Added bonus : companies & people don't expect perfect German. In our small (250 people) company you have 30 nationalities speaking German with wildly varying accents/proficiency. It works and the Germans never comment on it.
NAS said:
Digga said:
Well, with all due respect and all that, it is hardly the most mellifluous and charming language, even when spoken well.
Although, being Dutch, I shouldn't comment too much on that. Glass houses and all that.
Digga said:
No really, Dutch isn't in the same ball park. Also, slightly O/T but Portuguese always surprises and takes me aback with how utterly brutal it sounds. more Russian than Russian itself.
I remember my first flight with TAP. Settled nicely into my seat; start relaxing after the usual boarding hassle.First announcement comes over the tannoy:
HOLY f
k - I'M ON THE WRONG PLANE 
Complete internal panic. For a few minutes, I'm utterly convinced that I'm Poland or Czechoslovakia bound.
V8mate said:
Digga said:
No really, Dutch isn't in the same ball park. Also, slightly O/T but Portuguese always surprises and takes me aback with how utterly brutal it sounds. more Russian than Russian itself.
I remember my first flight with TAP. Settled nicely into my seat; start relaxing after the usual boarding hassle.First announcement comes over the tannoy:
HOLY f
k - I'M ON THE WRONG PLANE Complete internal panic. For a few minutes, I'm utterly convinced that I'm Poland or Czechoslovakia bound.
Not quite such a shock for me, but was still unsettling.Now, moving in the other direction, I am fairly confident in saying there is no more beautiful language than Italian. Which is a good job, because there are few nations who so seldom pause for breath.
V8mate said:
I remember my first flight with TAP. Settled nicely into my seat; start relaxing after the usual boarding hassle.
First announcement comes over the tannoy:
HOLY fk - I'M ON THE WRONG PLANE
Complete internal panic. For a few minutes, I'm utterly convinced that I'm Poland or Czechoslovakia bound.
Could be worse... could be a Russian plane. There is nothing quite so concerning as realising the cock pit smells a bit of drink as the flight crew err have been drinking. First announcement comes over the tannoy:
HOLY f
k - I'M ON THE WRONG PLANE Complete internal panic. For a few minutes, I'm utterly convinced that I'm Poland or Czechoslovakia bound.
Digga said:
Well, with all due respect and all that, it is hardly the most mellifluous and charming language, even when spoken well.
I have a German friend who was an actor during his studies in the U.K. He was thrilled to learn of a war drama requiring actors for German parts. We wished him good luck as he left to the audition to which he replied, “I am German, how can I fail?”, grinning through his chiselled jaw. Three hours later he returns looking glum “They claim I didn’t sound German enough and think I need to work on the accent”
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff