Primary School Visit to Mosque
Discussion
S10GTA said:
What a depressing read. How about some of you let your child form their own opinions of religion rather than the bigoted view you've clearly gained from the Daily Mail. Ffs.
Yup all these people banging on about indoctrination whilst not wanting their kids to go on a school trip to a mosque or talk about climate change 
My kids visited mosques (both girls and boys wore head scarves) and a Sikh temple a few museums a reservoir and various other places where they learned about the world. None of them or their friends became indoctrinated.
I even took one of my kids to an open day at a Mormon temple just because I wanted to have a nose around. Again none of them show any signs of religious indoctrination or a belief in any God.
It's a trip to a mosque for a few hours, they're not going to take a detour via Raqqa on the way back.
It's funny tbh because so many of you are concerned about what a few hours at a mosque might do to kids whilst apparently it's OK to teach them that religion is evil, Islam is more evil and Muslims probably want to stone or blow you up because that's what the Daily Mail (and the PistonHeads Prophets) teaches us.
It's funny tbh because so many of you are concerned about what a few hours at a mosque might do to kids whilst apparently it's OK to teach them that religion is evil, Islam is more evil and Muslims probably want to stone or blow you up because that's what the Daily Mail (and the PistonHeads Prophets) teaches us.
alock said:
Dressing up for fun and a forced dress code are two very different things.
Pretend that next year the school topic is slavery. When the kids go on a field trip do you expect the black kids in the class to wear a loin cloth and shackles?
Like the racist field trip?Pretend that next year the school topic is slavery. When the kids go on a field trip do you expect the black kids in the class to wear a loin cloth and shackles?
http://youtu.be/PToqVW4n86U
Contains Swearing and possibly could indoctrinate children.
I can remember visiting various religious institutions as a child on school trips. However I don't recall anyone being asked to do anything differently other than removing shoes and not running around like maniacs. This was 20+ years ago now though and I didn't 'get' religion then, even as a young child it seemed like nonsense to me, and these days I think it is utter b
ks, so I'm not sure how educational the experience was to be honest.
I'm not sure I feel with the idea of girls of that age being told they must wear X or Y and cover up. Feminists seem to have double standards when it comes to speaking up about equality and religion though........ don't hear them screaming much about the way Islamic women are treated do you? They prefer to rant about 'manspreading'and 'microaggression'.
ks, so I'm not sure how educational the experience was to be honest. I'm not sure I feel with the idea of girls of that age being told they must wear X or Y and cover up. Feminists seem to have double standards when it comes to speaking up about equality and religion though........ don't hear them screaming much about the way Islamic women are treated do you? They prefer to rant about 'manspreading'and 'microaggression'.
poo at Paul's said:
But she doesn't need to experience the discrimination to learn about it.
The sad reality is that it's not ok to discriminate on grounds of gender in the UK, so why should she be subjected to it. Because that says to her it is ok, and my own opinion is, it isn't! She is too young to understand it goes a fair bit deeper than covering their heads and legs in the Mosque!
If it were my daughter with the letter, and I decided against it, I would explain why.
All religions discriminate against women. So I take you wouldn't be happy about a visit to your local cathedral then?The sad reality is that it's not ok to discriminate on grounds of gender in the UK, so why should she be subjected to it. Because that says to her it is ok, and my own opinion is, it isn't! She is too young to understand it goes a fair bit deeper than covering their heads and legs in the Mosque!
If it were my daughter with the letter, and I decided against it, I would explain why.
el stovey said:
alock said:
Dressing up for fun and a forced dress code are two very different things.
Pretend that next year the school topic is slavery. When the kids go on a field trip do you expect the black kids in the class to wear a loin cloth and shackles?
Like the racist field trip?Pretend that next year the school topic is slavery. When the kids go on a field trip do you expect the black kids in the class to wear a loin cloth and shackles?
http://youtu.be/PToqVW4n86U
Contains Swearing and possibly could indoctrinate children.
That is funny....
24lemons said:
Offering kids the chance to learn about other religions gives them the ability to make educated informed decisions about other cultures.
And yet it's perfectly possible to learn about a countries culture without ever mentioning religion. The two are not the same. I would be happy for my (as yet unborn) children to go into any place of worship to see it and appreciate it architecturally (unless it has no history)... And hope they ignore the contents.
thebraketester said:
24lemons said:
Offering kids the chance to learn about other religions gives them the ability to make educated informed decisions about other cultures.
And yet it's perfectly possible to learn about a countries culture without ever mentioning religion. The two are not the same. I would be happy for my (as yet unborn) children to go into any place of worship to see it and appreciate it architecturally (unless it has no history)... And hope they ignore the contents.
bigkeeko said:
If it were my children I'd be taking the view that they have no need or want to learn anything from any `religion` that offers nothing rational or constructive.
Presumably then your children wouldn't be attending this particular school anyway - as the OP stated, it's a C of E school so any pupils there will be exposed to religion every day.poo at Paul's said:
But she doesn't need to experience the discrimination to learn about it.
Probably. But she certainly will appreciate the freedoms she has far more if they are taken away than if she is merely told about someone else's lifestyle. I cannot understand why anyone would object to a learning experience. The idea that any child will come back from such a trip thinking they have just experienced the "new normal" is, in my view, facile.
eccles said:
What about somewhere like StPauls cathederal?
What is the nature of the visit?To learn more about:
1/ the works of one of our countries finest architects?
2/ the major events that have taken place at the venue?
3/ to see art - eg the stained glass windows ?
4/ the historical significance
There are many good reasons to visit.
Although I'm not sure a 6 year old is really going to appreciate all of the above.
And.... as an introduction to "baby Jesus meek and mild".... I'm not sure it would be the first choice.
re:Mosque....If the kids are old enough to understand. ( 6 isn't in my book ) then why not.
When I was about 7 I visited the Blue Mosque in Istanbul and I can still remember it. It had no religious effect on me though. Nor did it years later when I visited the Vatican or the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem or the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem. I'm not remotely religious, but these places are architecturally and historically interesting. My father is boorishly anti-religious and even he would visit such places out of interest. He visited the mosque in Kufa, Iraq once, which is where Noah's ark is supposed to have been built.
eccles said:
Troubleatmill said:
But taking 6 year old kids to a place of religion??
No.
What about somewhere like StPauls cathederal?No.
Children need to be banned from going to religious places and spoon fed atheism by the parents so they can grow up free thinking and open minded and knowledgable about the world.
Chrisgr31 said:
Exactly this. I would be quite happy for my daughter to go on a trip like this. Learning about all faiths has to be good especially in the current climate,
You may have missed the bit about the fact that they are already learning about this religion, as they have other religions including Hinduism, Budhism, Judaism and the various Christian faiths so far...but they have not been on a visit to any other temples or houses of worship, in the last 2 years, this is the first and in doing so, the girls will be discriminated against compared to the boys. And these are predominantly either Christian or Agnostic kids. So to reiterate, they are already learning about this religion and others for the last 2 years, but not other faith visits.
If it were my daughter and there was no "discriminatory" dress code, I would probably let her go.
Silver Smudger said:
I really am amazed how paranoid and hysterical this thread is - No-one on a school trip is going to be brainwashed, radicalise, raped or shot! It will be a tour of a building and some information about how a group of normal humans worship their deity of choice. There is also a dress code.
I recently went on a similar primary school trip with my kids to a Gurdwara - Shoes had to be removed and heads had to be covered, as these are the rules of the building. Some of the kids thought the head-scarves issued looked silly, some pretended to be ninjas - Most of the boys skated on the marble floors in their socks!
I found the visit very interesting, knowing very little about the Sikh faith, and so did many of the class - No-one was preached to, or converted but the children were able to meet people they normally would not have known.
Learning a little about how others see the world and live their lives is something that everyone should take time to do, and this is an opportunity, not a trap.
FWIW, I am not a Muslim, I am white, middle aged and brought up in the Baptist church, but am now not religious. I went to an all-white C of E school - Now I work in London with people from an assortment of backgrounds, religious groups and countries of origin, and count some of them as good friends. I do not personally know any extreme jihadists, but I never met anyone from the UVF at church either...
Some of you could do with actually meeting a Muslim, instead of relying on the Daily Mail for your opinions.
Your example is not quite the same though is it? If it were both sexes that had to abide by the same rules, as in your case, as the father of a daughter, it would not trouble me I don't think. However, as this is what non muslims may see as discrimination against the female sex, and as those of us who are older know, the religion goes on to segregate and most non muslims would say denigrate women, I think it is a totally different thing. For example, the letter says that all the kids will have to remove their shoes etc..I have no issue with that. And if the lads had to wear trousers only (no shorts) and cover their heads, again, I don't think I would have an issue. I recently went on a similar primary school trip with my kids to a Gurdwara - Shoes had to be removed and heads had to be covered, as these are the rules of the building. Some of the kids thought the head-scarves issued looked silly, some pretended to be ninjas - Most of the boys skated on the marble floors in their socks!
I found the visit very interesting, knowing very little about the Sikh faith, and so did many of the class - No-one was preached to, or converted but the children were able to meet people they normally would not have known.
Learning a little about how others see the world and live their lives is something that everyone should take time to do, and this is an opportunity, not a trap.
FWIW, I am not a Muslim, I am white, middle aged and brought up in the Baptist church, but am now not religious. I went to an all-white C of E school - Now I work in London with people from an assortment of backgrounds, religious groups and countries of origin, and count some of them as good friends. I do not personally know any extreme jihadists, but I never met anyone from the UVF at church either...
Some of you could do with actually meeting a Muslim, instead of relying on the Daily Mail for your opinions.
Edited by Silver Smudger on Saturday 16th January 03:00
Corpulent Tosser said:
I agree, I am non religious and have deep suspicion about religions particularly Islam, but this is a school trip, to further the education and knowledge of the children, not a brainwashing exercise.
No one has said it is! FFS, they are already learning about Islam and all other religions it is on the syllabus. But do you think it is ok for a religion to discriminate and segregate against one particular sex? because I don't and millions or billions of others feel the same.
The discomfort felt by the mums last night was on the basis of the dress code being enforced on their daughters. And I tend to see where they are coming from.
I do not worry that my daughter would be "brainwashed" or anything else. But should she be subjected to the discrimination that this fait practices on their women folk, even just a little, like wearing a headscarf?
BTW, it seems I was incorrect, this is just one class and is all kids 7 and 8. So if the poster at the start who mentioned about pre pubescent girls not being subject to the same "rules" as older girls, then it would seem over zealous to make them dress differently, no?
This is a school that was in the top 3 of the league tables a few years ago, in the country that is, btw!
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