Jacob Rees-Mogg

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Discussion

Boydie88

3,283 posts

150 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
It's not a baby. Up-to week 9 it's not even a fetus. Given that most of your posts could be distilled to 'omg, lefties!' the above post is hardly surprising.
Heart starts beating around 6, after that, it is a life in my opinion.

chrispmartha

15,501 posts

130 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
Boydie88 said:
jjlynn27 said:
It's not a baby. Up-to week 9 it's not even a fetus. Given that most of your posts could be distilled to 'omg, lefties!' the above post is hardly surprising.
Heart starts beating around 6, after that, it is a life in my opinion.
So even you yourself disagree with Mogg.

gadgetmac

14,984 posts

109 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
Boydie88 said:
jjlynn27 said:
It's not a baby. Up-to week 9 it's not even a fetus. Given that most of your posts could be distilled to 'omg, lefties!' the above post is hardly surprising.
Heart starts beating around 6, after that, it is a life in my opinion.
It might be ‘life’ technically, much like an amoeba is life, but it’s not a human baby.

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

159 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
Boydie88 said:
Heart starts beating around 6, after that, it is a life in my opinion.
An alternative definition is when it's capable of independent life rather than being dependent on the mother. I'm not sure what age that is.

Boydie88

3,283 posts

150 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
chrispmartha said:
So even you yourself disagree with Mogg.
Yeah, don't agree with many religious types. The guy is at least consistent and honest with his position, something which is lacking in politics.

John145

2,448 posts

157 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
Rovinghawk said:
Boydie88 said:
Heart starts beating around 6, after that, it is a life in my opinion.
An alternative definition is when it's capable of independent life rather than being dependent on the mother. I'm not sure what age that is.
Does being self sufficient qualify someone to be protected in life?

irocfan

40,501 posts

191 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
Rovinghawk said:
Boydie88 said:
Heart starts beating around 6, after that, it is a life in my opinion.
An alternative definition is when it's capable of independent life rather than being dependent on the mother. I'm not sure what age that is.
so by that definition where does that leave people like Hawking?

Zod

35,295 posts

259 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
Boydie88 said:
jjlynn27 said:
It's not a baby. Up-to week 9 it's not even a fetus. Given that most of your posts could be distilled to 'omg, lefties!' the above post is hardly surprising.
Heart starts beating around 6, after that, it is a life in my opinion.
Well, having suffered miscarriages, I should have attended several funerals of such lives then.

wiggy001

6,545 posts

272 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
Zod said:
Boydie88 said:
jjlynn27 said:
It's not a baby. Up-to week 9 it's not even a fetus. Given that most of your posts could be distilled to 'omg, lefties!' the above post is hardly surprising.
Heart starts beating around 6, after that, it is a life in my opinion.
Well, having suffered miscarriages, I should have attended several funerals of such lives then.
Same here.

You won't get a death certificate before 24 weeks and you can't normally abort after 24 weeks, so the law seems pretty clear on this.


gooner1

10,223 posts

180 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
irocfan said:
Rovinghawk said:
Boydie88 said:
Heart starts beating around 6, after that, it is a life in my opinion.
An alternative definition is when it's capable of independent life rather than being dependent on the mother. I'm not sure what age that is.
so by that definition where does that leave people like Hawking?
What do degenerative ailments have to do with abortions.
Especially one the presented itself well after birth.

Angrybiker

557 posts

91 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
gooner1 said:
irocfan said:
Rovinghawk said:
Boydie88 said:
Heart starts beating around 6, after that, it is a life in my opinion.
An alternative definition is when it's capable of independent life rather than being dependent on the mother. I'm not sure what age that is.
so by that definition where does that leave people like Hawking?
What do degenerative ailments have to do with abortions.
Especially one the presented itself well after birth.
They end up in the same logical grouping as 'can't survive independently'.

If we're all being honest with each other, none of us know for sure the point at which a bunch of cells actually becomes a human being biologically, or when consciousness starts. We can all posit various hypotheses and choose to believe one or another with varying vehemence, but we don't KNOW. This much is evident, at the very least, from the last x pages of debate in this thread.

We do all know however that even as a group of cells - assuming no complications - that group of cells will eventually become a human being.

Therefore is not entirely without foundation to assert that if you destroy that group of cells then you are denying the creation of a life.

So regardless of what you choose to believe on the subject; and regardless of what policy you choose to apply regardless of the former; logically you can't fault someone for having an anti-abortion position because that position is based on something that we all know to be a fact.



Edited by Angrybiker on Tuesday 24th October 17:33

craigjm

17,957 posts

201 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
Rovinghawk said:
Boydie88 said:
Heart starts beating around 6, after that, it is a life in my opinion.
An alternative definition is when it's capable of independent life rather than being dependent on the mother. I'm not sure what age that is.
If that was the definition then it would be legal to murder children up to about the age of 15

craigjm

17,957 posts

201 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
Angrybiker said:
They end up in the same logical grouping as 'can't survive independently'.

If we're all being honest with each other, none of us know for sure the point at which a bunch of cells actually becomes a human being biologically, or when consciousness starts. We can all posit various hypotheses and choose to believe one or another with varying vehemence, but we don't KNOW. This much is evident, at the very least, from the last x pages of debate in this thread.

We do all know however that even as a group of cells - assuming no complications - that group of cells will eventually become a human being.

Therefore is not entirely without foundation to assert that if you destroy that group of cells then you are denying the creation of a life.

So regardless of what you choose to believe on the subject; and regardless of what policy you choose to apply regardless of the former; logically you can't fault someone for having an anti-abortion position because that position is based on something that we all know to be a fact.
Edited by Angrybiker on Tuesday 24th October 17:33
He can have his beliefs that’s fine. The law is pretty clear though and has been for some time. I wouldn’t want to elect someone, or support a party lead by someone who wanted to change that law. There are too many unwanted children in the world as it is and too many severely disabled children etc without much of a quality of life that would only both increase in numbers if abortion was banned or the time limit severely reduced. The worst of it for me though is that a government ran by him doing something like this would be men telling women what to do with their bodies and that is just wrong.

anonymous-user

55 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
craigjm said:
If that was the definition then it would be legal to murder children up to about the age of 15
No.

A child can live perfectly well without its mother from birth.


anonymous-user

55 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
Rees-Mogg has been clear if he were in such a position, he wouldn't force his personal views on the country, he knows even if he wanted to, he couldn't.

I'd much rather I had someone steering a direction that was honest and understood what is politically possible, than someone who lied and forced through policy knowing they were lying. We had that sort of character in Blair, the closet catholic.

craigjm

17,957 posts

201 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
desolate said:
craigjm said:
If that was the definition then it would be legal to murder children up to about the age of 15
No.

A child can live perfectly well without its mother from birth.
Do you really think so? Let’s take the average baby and leave it on its own and see what happens after a few days

craigjm

17,957 posts

201 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
jsf said:
Rees-Mogg has been clear if he were in such a position, he wouldn't force his personal views on the country, he knows even if he wanted to, he couldn't.

I'd much rather I had someone steering a direction that was honest and understood what is politically possible, than someone who lied and forced through policy knowing they were lying. We had that sort of character in Blair, the closet catholic.
Problem is though vast swathes of people thought Blair and others were honest and understood what was politically possible etc etc. It is the passage of tile and hindsight that allows that view to change. Rees Mogg could be just as bad if not worse you just don’t know.

anonymous-user

55 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
craigjm said:
Do you really think so? Let’s take the average baby and leave it on its own and see what happens after a few days
Why would you do that?
Just give it someone to look after. That would be the sensible thing to do.


Try that with the contents of an abortion bucket.

Caveated by the fact I would strongly support the close monitoring of the latest time a legal abortion can be performed, and be very conservative.

jakesmith

9,461 posts

172 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
desolate said:
No.

A child can live perfectly well without its mother from birth.
Independently?

anonymous-user

55 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
craigjm said:
Problem is though vast swathes of people thought Blair and others were honest and understood what was politically possible etc etc. It is the passage of tile and hindsight that allows that view to change. Rees Mogg could be just as bad if not worse you just don’t know.
That's very true, we never know what we are truly buying. The fact he is openly catholic doesn't put me off him though, even though I don't agree with his views on this subject. I find all religions bonkers, but at least there is some logic behind his position on abortion based on his moral stance. No one will be able to put any political pressure on him by trying to break the story of what he genuinely believes, which you couldn't say for Blair.