Jacob Rees-Mogg
Discussion
jakesmith said:
desolate said:
No.
A child can live perfectly well without its mother from birth.
Independently?A child can live perfectly well without its mother from birth.
desolate said:
jakesmith said:
Independently?
No.What's your point?
craigjm said:
You said a child can live perfectly well without its mother from birth. I guess what you meant to say was that a child is perfectly able to survive being cared for by any other human. There is a huge difference between the two statements.
Edit for being unnecessarily argumentative:I meant exactly what I said in my post.
A child can survive without its mother. The product of an abortion can't.
I think my post of 1807 is perfectly accurate.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 24th October 18:50
I can't believe that there are people around who are still spouting 'oh well, at least he is honest' about his abhorrent views that have a place is some forgotten hellhole 5 centuries ago, not in 21st century Britain. If the same views were spouted by some backward imam the same people will be up in arms decrying PC, snowflakism, full Islamification of UK, or whatever else infowars, breitbart or order-order told them to get upset about.
desolate said:
Edit for being unnecessarily argumentative:
I meant exactly what I said in my post.
A child can survive without its mother. The product of an abortion can't.
I think my post of 1807 is perfectly accurate.
It is quite possible for a child to survive after 20 weeks yet abortion is legal up to 24.I meant exactly what I said in my post.
A child can survive without its mother. The product of an abortion can't.
I think my post of 1807 is perfectly accurate.
Edited by desolate on Tuesday 24th October 18:50
Jinx said:
desolate said:
Edit for being unnecessarily argumentative:
I meant exactly what I said in my post.
A child can survive without its mother. The product of an abortion can't.
I think my post of 1807 is perfectly accurate.
It is quite possible for a child to survive after 20 weeks yet abortion is legal up to 24.I meant exactly what I said in my post.
A child can survive without its mother. The product of an abortion can't.
I think my post of 1807 is perfectly accurate.
Edited by desolate on Tuesday 24th October 18:50
gadgetmac said:
Yes, science is progressing wonderfully in keeping semi-formed human beings alive from an early age but these foetus are not viable without scientific intervention. I dare say that in 75 years time we’ll be able to bring an embryo to full-term outside of the womb but an embryo is not a child its a clump of cells.
As are we all.Jinx said:
gadgetmac said:
Yes, science is progressing wonderfully in keeping semi-formed human beings alive from an early age but these foetus are not viable without scientific intervention. I dare say that in 75 years time we’ll be able to bring an embryo to full-term outside of the womb but an embryo is not a child its a clump of cells.
As are we all.citizensm1th said:
Men arguing about a woman's right to decide if they carry a pregnancy to full term or not.
how very enlightened
Men (and women) have been dictating what others are allowed to do with their own bodies for ever. how very enlightened
eg. it's illegal to self harm, it's illegal to drink underage, it's illegal to take drugs, it's illegal to walk around naked where your ugliness causes offence to others.
Unfortunately your stance of it's someone else's body you're talking about therefore you cannot comment is made defunct by the opposing position of the strong must protect the weak.
desolate said:
What's your position on this, Jinx?
In a perfect world there would be no unwanted pregnancies. And much like the law in this country is set up to try and do - the principle of causing the least further harm in each individual case would be my preferred option. If we believe there is nothing special about a fetus then we may as well be honest and acknowledge there is nothing special about any of us. So no I don't hold with JRMs "no abortion" in any situation. But I find the opposite "abortion as a form of birth control" far more abhorrent. I'd rather have contraceptives in the water (or cheap cider) than that. For the majority in this country there is little excuse to not use birth control if a pregnancy is not desired and as a society surely we have advanced beyond stigmatising single parent families? I would encourage all pregnancies to go to term by provide support networks and make adoption a more normal option (for the many who want children but cannot conceive) but allow abortion as ultimately free will is the overriding libertarian ideal.
Jinx said:
Are we? Certainly not when we are unconscious.
You say ‘Certainly’ which is not true.I was awoken from my sleep just a week ago when my wife was standing over me silently at 4am whilst I slept. Although unconscious I was still self aware enough to at some level register a possible threat and quickly wake up.
gadgetmac said:
You say ‘Certainly’ which is not true.
I was awoken from my sleep just a week ago when my wife was standing over me silently at 4am whilst I slept. Although unconscious I was still self aware enough to at some level register a possible threat and quickly wake up.
You were asleep - probably during the lighter REM stage. Unconsciousness is not just asleep more akin with deep sleep.I was awoken from my sleep just a week ago when my wife was standing over me silently at 4am whilst I slept. Although unconscious I was still self aware enough to at some level register a possible threat and quickly wake up.
Jinx said:
In a perfect world there would be no unwanted pregnancies. And much like the law in this country is set up to try and do - the principle of causing the least further harm in each individual case would be my preferred option. If we believe there is nothing special about a fetus then we may as well be honest and acknowledge there is nothing special about any of us.
So no I don't hold with JRMs "no abortion" in any situation. But I find the opposite "abortion as a form of birth control" far more abhorrent. I'd rather have contraceptives in the water (or cheap cider) than that. For the majority in this country there is little excuse to not use birth control if a pregnancy is not desired and as a society surely we have advanced beyond stigmatising single parent families? I would encourage all pregnancies to go to term by provide support networks and make adoption a more normal option (for the many who want children but cannot conceive) but allow abortion as ultimately free will is the overriding libertarian ideal.
You are perfectly entitled to believe what you believe of course. You have put your point of view and there is logic in it. So no I don't hold with JRMs "no abortion" in any situation. But I find the opposite "abortion as a form of birth control" far more abhorrent. I'd rather have contraceptives in the water (or cheap cider) than that. For the majority in this country there is little excuse to not use birth control if a pregnancy is not desired and as a society surely we have advanced beyond stigmatising single parent families? I would encourage all pregnancies to go to term by provide support networks and make adoption a more normal option (for the many who want children but cannot conceive) but allow abortion as ultimately free will is the overriding libertarian ideal.
However, what about those who do not feel the same as you, who believe that everyone is special but a foetus is not conscious and so is different from people? Should your beliefs override theirs? R-Mogg takes his guide from the political leader of another country and religion. Fair enough, but we have no way of democratising various sects and religions. I don't want sahria law or similar from any religion.
It is easy enough to destroy any religiously held belief by the use of logic. R-Mogg's total rejection is weird but he's entitled to believe that n angels dance on the head of a pin, and good luck to him. But there must be some reason for rejecting a woman's right to abort a foetus other than 'I've been told, and it's in my special book'.
It would be wrong to force an abortion on any woman. If a raped woman conceives then R-Mogg should keep his religious views to himself. It is the woman's decision.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff