Type 45 destroyers face engine refit already.
Discussion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35432341
Article is short on details, but could the RN/govt be to blame for this in any way, or is it BAE/RR/GE's screwup? I have a feeling I know who'll be paying for it in any case.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_45_destroyer#Pr...
Article is short on details, but could the RN/govt be to blame for this in any way, or is it BAE/RR/GE's screwup? I have a feeling I know who'll be paying for it in any case.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_45_destroyer#Pr...
glazbagun said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35432341
Article is short on details, but could the RN/govt be to blame for this in any way, or is it BAE/RR/GE's screwup? I have a feeling I know who'll be paying for it in any case.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_45_destroyer#Pr...
Not a clue. But, *if* a government is to blame then it will be the previous Labour government, as problems first appeared in 2009.Article is short on details, but could the RN/govt be to blame for this in any way, or is it BAE/RR/GE's screwup? I have a feeling I know who'll be paying for it in any case.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_45_destroyer#Pr...
What crappy journalism; other than there's a problem across the whole class I've learned nothing from that. If it's the diesels then Wartsila pick up the tab as they built the things, that's one of the main points of COTS procurement. Bloody stupid idea only having 2 diesel gennys, the 23s have 4 so it doesn't matter if one goes diffy.
To be fair the class is 10 years old and asides from the electrical outages have been doing a pretty good job especially as we only have 6 (very prototype style ships) covering the tasks of 12 ships. The ships will be coming up to a scheduled refit before too long anyway and hopefully they take the opportunity to sort out a couple of prop shaft and bearing issues at the same time.
I'm sure BAE will do the right thing and sort any issues as... hahahahahaha.... Sorry, almost finished that.
It could be far worse though, they could be LCS's.
I'm sure BAE will do the right thing and sort any issues as... hahahahahaha.... Sorry, almost finished that.
It could be far worse though, they could be LCS's.
hidetheelephants said:
What crappy journalism; other than there's a problem across the whole class I've learned nothing from that. If it's the diesels then Wartsila pick up the tab as they built the things, that's one of the main points of COTS procurement. Bloody stupid idea only having 2 diesel gennys, the 23s have 4 so it doesn't matter if one goes diffy.
Do these people know nothing, if you want a reliable gen set you buy a honda. williamp said:
Apparently the IMS seal isnt covered by warranty with the Royal Navy. It is with the US Navy, however....
But Type45 owners will tell you its not the big issue that we think it is. Best buy a Type45.2 instead of the Gen 1 just in case, or better still save up for the Turbo. PRTVR said:
hidetheelephants said:
What crappy journalism; other than there's a problem across the whole class I've learned nothing from that. If it's the diesels then Wartsila pick up the tab as they built the things, that's one of the main points of COTS procurement. Bloody stupid idea only having 2 diesel gennys, the 23s have 4 so it doesn't matter if one goes diffy.
Do these people know nothing, if you want a reliable gen set you buy a honda. That said, if the solution is another genset, that implies the issue is one of power transformation/distribution rather than simply unreliable power source?
it looks more like the concept of integrated electric propulsion was taken a little bit too far into the rest of the ships electrical supply?
Apparently, whilst historically, the Diesels, Turbines , Gensets have run independently, of each other , ie: independent control functions . They tried to integrate the whole shooting match, with the apparent end result that if one throws an error , then it takes down the lot, as against a specific module, which would have been the previous case.
So, it appears not to be the hardware itself which is the problem, but the control system around it.
Nope, I'm not a maritime engineer, but the bloke who roughly outlined the above is.
So, it appears not to be the hardware itself which is the problem, but the control system around it.
Nope, I'm not a maritime engineer, but the bloke who roughly outlined the above is.
Europa1 said:
Yes, does seem a surprising answer given that according to the news, the fix is to install an additional generator.
Given thats the solution, it sounds to me like someone has either miscalculated how much the peak power consumption is, or someone has tried adding more electrical systems on to it than it was originally spec'd for.mcdjl said:
Europa1 said:
Yes, does seem a surprising answer given that according to the news, the fix is to install an additional generator.
Given thats the solution, it sounds to me like someone has either miscalculated how much the peak power consumption is, or someone has tried adding more electrical systems on to it than it was originally spec'd for.adding a 2Mw genset when you have two 21.5Mw gas turbines on hand does not imply a power deficiency issue, it shows a power distribution/management issue.
Maybe I got confused or wasn't listening properly, but iirc the information as relayed to me, thought the Type 45 has two engine rooms, each with a GT and a diesel. Idea being that if one engine room is damaged or offline the ship can continue on the remaining one. Inferred that it could carry on a full capacity on one but I wasn't so sure.
Initially wondered by installing extra generation if it's a case of they found they couldn't run on just one engine room, hence more generation capacity. But the BBC piece inferred total power loss.
Hmmmm.
Initially wondered by installing extra generation if it's a case of they found they couldn't run on just one engine room, hence more generation capacity. But the BBC piece inferred total power loss.
Hmmmm.
AlexS said:
I'm not sure how much your marine engineer friend knows about the hardware involved on this boat.
Not a friend, a Proffessor somebody who was on the box. He appeared to know his stuff. As said, he very much suspected the main problem was in integrating demand across the hardware as against the needs for different functions being supplied on a modular basis. He came across as somebody who very much knew his subject
Scuffers said:
PRTVR said:
hidetheelephants said:
What crappy journalism; other than there's a problem across the whole class I've learned nothing from that. If it's the diesels then Wartsila pick up the tab as they built the things, that's one of the main points of COTS procurement. Bloody stupid idea only having 2 diesel gennys, the 23s have 4 so it doesn't matter if one goes diffy.
Do these people know nothing, if you want a reliable gen set you buy a honda. That said, if the solution is another genset, that implies the issue is one of power transformation/distribution rather than simply unreliable power source?
it looks more like the concept of integrated electric propulsion was taken a little bit too far into the rest of the ships electrical supply?
Hosenbugler said:
AlexS said:
I'm not sure how much your marine engineer friend knows about the hardware involved on this boat.
Not a friend, a Proffessor somebody who was on the box. He appeared to know his stuff. As said, he very much suspected the main problem was in integrating demand across the hardware as against the needs for different functions being supplied on a modular basis. He came across as somebody who very much knew his subject
Edited by hidetheelephants on Friday 29th January 17:53
Scuffers said:
PRTVR said:
hidetheelephants said:
What crappy journalism; other than there's a problem across the whole class I've learned nothing from that. If it's the diesels then Wartsila pick up the tab as they built the things, that's one of the main points of COTS procurement. Bloody stupid idea only having 2 diesel gennys, the 23s have 4 so it doesn't matter if one goes diffy.
Do these people know nothing, if you want a reliable gen set you buy a honda. That said, if the solution is another genset, that implies the issue is one of power transformation/distribution rather than simply unreliable power source?
it looks more like the concept of integrated electric propulsion was taken a little bit too far into the rest of the ships electrical supply?
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