Brexit Poll 1/2/16

[fido]

blindswelledrat said:

the elderly are scared of change and no longer have jobs that depend on the EU

Are you describing the bureaucrats and others hanging on the EU gravy train?

[PRTVR]

fido said:

blindswelledrat said:

the elderly are scared of change and no longer have jobs that depend on the EU

Are you describing the bureaucrats and others hanging on the EU gravy train?

[CaptainSlow]

Seems even Sturgeon has had enough of Osborne's bullst.

[blindswelledrat]

PRTVR said:

blindswelledrat said:

PRTVR said:

May be the people of retirement age have experience of what the EU was sold to us as, along with what it has ended up becoming, let's stop them voting because they have experience, let's give the vote to naive youngsters who will not know better, what a good idea
.

Or perhaps the elderly are scared of change and no longer have jobs that depend on the EU?

But most of them have children and grandchildren who they want the best for,
along with this will be change if we leave ,so pray tell me how they are scared of change?

Im just soooo bored now with this argumentative nonsense.
In exactly the same way that 10 years ago old people were lamenting all the darkies and the gays ruining our country. Old people are not 'experienced' they are stuck in their ways as everyone knows. But don't let that stop you laughably claiming that they are all wizened and experienced.
But whatever. I'm too bored again.

[fido]

CaptainSlow said:

Seems even Sturgeon has had enough of Osborne's bullst.

You've reach a new bullst low when the masters of bullst (a.k.a. SNP) calls you out

[andymadmak]

blindswelledrat said:

PRTVR said:

blindswelledrat said:

PRTVR said:

May be the people of retirement age have experience of what the EU was sold to us as, along with what it has ended up becoming, let's stop them voting because they have experience, let's give the vote to naive youngsters who will not know better, what a good idea
.

Or perhaps the elderly are scared of change and no longer have jobs that depend on the EU?

But most of them have children and grandchildren who they want the best for,
along with this will be change if we leave ,so pray tell me how they are scared of change?

Im just soooo bored now with this argumentative nonsense.
In exactly the same way that 10 years ago old people were lamenting all the darkies and the gays ruining our country. Old people are not 'experienced' they are stuck in their ways as everyone knows. But don't let that stop you laughably claiming that they are all wizened and experienced.
But whatever. I'm too bored again.

Is that code for

"I am spitting the dummy because I cannot get my own way in this argument, so I will casually conflate old people with racism and homophobia in the vain hope that by playing these (historically very powerful) jokers I will win this round of Jeux Sans Frontiers? "

[eatcustard]

blindswelledrat said:

PRTVR said:

May be the people of retirement age have experience of what the EU was sold to us as, along with what it has ended up becoming, let's stop them voting because they have experience, let's give the vote to naive youngsters who will not know better, what a good idea
.

Or perhaps the elderly are scared of change and no longer have jobs that depend on the EU?

But they are voing OUT, so want a change, you post is pointless

[RYH64E]

PRTVR said:

May be the people of retirement age have experience of what the EU was sold to us as, along with what it has ended up becoming, let's stop them voting because they have experience, let's give the vote to naive youngsters who will not know better, what a good idea

What of the challenges of remaining, oh well it will be ok just look at the Greeks, well perhaps not the Greeks but the Spanish, ok not the Spanish but the Germans are doing OK, well apart from the start of social unrest due to immigration, Norway and Switzerland have withdrawn their application to join the EU, tells you all you need to know about the state of the EU.

I'm old enough to remember life pre-1975, and you would need some very heavily rose tinted glasses to think things were better then than now. I'm not for one minute suggesting that membership of the EU is solely responsible for the improvement in living standards, but imo today's world is a much more comfortable place than back in the good old days (at least, it is in the UK part of the world).

It's also worth pointing out, again, that we're not Greece and not Spain, we're doing very well thank you very much and doing well within the EU. The economy is growing, employment is high, life is good, all as members of the EU.

[fido]

RYH64E said:

I'm old enough to remember life pre-1975, and you would need some very heavily rose tinted glasses to think things were better then than now. I'm not for one minute suggesting that membership of the EU is solely responsible for the improvement in living standards, but imo today's world is a much more comfortable place than back in the good old days (at least, it is in the UK part of the world).

Yes - thanks to Thatcher for economic reforms and deregulation. EU has nothing to do with - in fact it is shrinking as a % of world trade (from over 1/3 to less than 1/5 today).

[Mr GrimNasty]

RYH64E said:

It's also worth pointing out, again, that we're not Greece and not Spain, we're doing very well thank you very much and doing well within the EU. The economy is growing, employment is high, life is good, all as members of the EU.

Keep taking the drugs, state and personal debt is unsustainable, growth is all but non-existent and that tiny amount just an artifact of millions of people coming here - it's not real growth. The gov. even admits that future (non)growth depends on millions more migrants, so the platform they were elected on to get immigration down was a lie.

[danllama]

I'd like to divert from the repetitive discussion if I may. I've done some serious thinking over the last week and decided that if we will remain in the EU I am going to leave the UK and find opportunity elsewhere.

Not necessarily ONLY because of remaining, but life here in London is draining me recently, and it feels one hundred times worse with this constant alienation as someone who doesn't want to be part of the EU. So IF we do remain, I will take it as the kick up the back side I need to enjoy life a bit more.

Has anybody else had this feeling?

[turbobloke]

danllama said:

I'd like to divert from the repetitive discussion if I may. I've done some serious thinking over the last week and decided that if we will remain in the EU I am going to leave the UK and find opportunity elsewhere.

Not necessarily ONLY because of remaining, but life here in London is draining me recently, and it feels one hundred times worse with this constant alienation as someone who doesn't want to be part of the EU. So IF we do remain, I will take it as the kick up the back side I need to enjoy life a bit more.

Has anybody else had this feeling?

Sort-of, yes, starting before the 2015 GE result and the referendum announcement. It was already bad enough.

Not that I'll upsticks and leave if we remain (!) but plans to spend more winter time away from the back-door socialism, control freakery, incompetence and lack of democracy will be sufficiently therapeutic. We've had a new build underway for some time, somewhere hot and relaxing, outside the EU.

Until the EZ started to go titsup we enjoyed a similar pattern via the south of Spain near Cadiz, with an apartnemt well-placed for F1 winter testing in Jerez and only 5 euros per day for the pleasure of early Feb temperatures in the mid 20s and once 30 deg C. Winter (!) testing, aye.

That went as soon as the first signs of grief appeared. Good timing but only by making it a jfdi matter. Best of luck with your plans.

[limpsfield]

danllama said:

I'd like to divert from the repetitive discussion if I may. I've done some serious thinking over the last week and decided that if we will remain in the EU I am going to leave the UK and find opportunity elsewhere.

Not necessarily ONLY because of remaining, but life here in London is draining me recently, and it feels one hundred times worse with this constant alienation as someone who doesn't want to be part of the EU. So IF we do remain, I will take it as the kick up the back side I need to enjoy life a bit more.

Has anybody else had this feeling?

People who make pronouncements like this seldom follow it through. It's highly unlikely you will. Google Paul O Grady.

[turbobloke]

limpsfield said:

danllama said:

I'd like to divert from the repetitive discussion if I may. I've done some serious thinking over the last week and decided that if we will remain in the EU I am going to leave the UK and find opportunity elsewhere.

Not necessarily ONLY because of remaining, but life here in London is draining me recently, and it feels one hundred times worse with this constant alienation as someone who doesn't want to be part of the EU. So IF we do remain, I will take it as the kick up the back side I need to enjoy life a bit more.

Has anybody else had this feeling?

People who make pronouncements like this seldom follow it through. It's highly unlikely you will. Google Paul O Grady.

In which case danllama had better take a tin of custard for inclusion in the pics

[anonymous-user]

RYH64E said:

PRTVR said:

May be the people of retirement age have experience of what the EU was sold to us as, along with what it has ended up becoming, let's stop them voting because they have experience, let's give the vote to naive youngsters who will not know better, what a good idea

What of the challenges of remaining, oh well it will be ok just look at the Greeks, well perhaps not the Greeks but the Spanish, ok not the Spanish but the Germans are doing OK, well apart from the start of social unrest due to immigration, Norway and Switzerland have withdrawn their application to join the EU, tells you all you need to know about the state of the EU.

I'm old enough to remember life pre-1975, and you would need some very heavily rose tinted glasses to think things were better then than now. I'm not for one minute suggesting that membership of the EU is solely responsible for the improvement in living standards, but imo today's world is a much more comfortable place than back in the good old days (at least, it is in the UK part of the world).

It's also worth pointing out, again, that we're not Greece and not Spain, we're doing very well thank you very much and doing well within the EU. The economy is growing, employment is high, life is good, all as members of the EU.

Pre 75 is irrelevant. Think about 75-95. Some good economic times especially once Thatcher stood up to the hard left, and won the battle.

All before the EU became any more than a trading block.

We're where we are now despite the EU not because of it.

[danllama]

turbobloke said:

Sort-of, yes, starting before the 2015 GE result and the referendum announcement. It was already bad enough.

Not that I'll upsticks and leave if we remain (!) but plans to spend more winter time away from the back-door socialism, control freakery, incompetence and lack of democracy will be sufficiently therapeutic. We've had a new build underway for some time, somewhere hot and relaxing, outside the EU.

Until the EZ started to go titsup we enjoyed a similar pattern via the south of Spain near Cadiz, with an apartnemt well-placed for F1 winter testing in Jerez and only 5 euros per day for the pleasure of early Feb temperatures in the mid 20s and once 30 deg C. Winter (!) testing, aye.

That went as soon as the first signs of grief appeared. Good timing but only by making it a jfdi matter. Best of luck with your plans.

Sounds like your a man with the means. (That's not a dig, but a 'well done, good for you'. I wish I was too. I don't have much, no property, no wide/kids, an average salary etc. But I guess that means I don't have too much to lose really.

If I had the means to simply spend more time away, I think I would. But with my current situation, it's either stay or go.

limpsfield said:

People who make pronouncements like this seldom follow it through. It's highly unlikely you will. Google Paul O Grady.

It's not really a pronouncement as such. This is the only place I've put this idea down in words, and it's hardly a soap box. I just wondered if others had similar thoughts, and this is the most relevant place I could think of where I'd get some reasoned replies.

Custard indeed. Everybody who knows me says the one thing they like about me is I say I will do something, and I do it. We'll see.

[Coolbanana]

danllama said:

Has anybody else had this feeling?

I returned to the UK 16 years ago - I was born here but my parents emigrated to South Africa when I was a kid - and have not really taken to the Lifestyle here. It isn't my home. I need a warm, outdoors-orientated place to live where chasing materialistic goals and moaning about the weather while nursing a warm pint in a dingy Pub under dank, overcast skies are not the norm.

My wife and step-kids are what has kept us here this long (Schooling, kids Dad etc) but a vote for Leave in the EU Referendum would definitely be a shove to leave the UK for us. If we needed one.

We have already begun the process and intended to relocate regardless but we both feel strongly that it would be a mistake for the UK to leave the EU and it would've sent us packing if we were not already doing so.

Both Camps in the Debate are using pathetic, desperate arguments aimed at appealing to the ignorant and stupid. In addition Sovereignty, Patriotism and a biased dislike for certain Public Office individuals cloud true, informed decision-making.

I believe the UK will thrive outside of the EU but it will hurt in the short-term while it resets itself with the EU countries. But therein lies the issue for me - I am convinced that the negotiations that see the UK eventually restore what it loses in leaving the EU re-package the exact same Conditions the Leavers thought they were getting away from for the 'new' Trade deals etc to be accepted. The present or next Government, (Tory or Labour regardless) will be forced into concessions that will vastly reduce any perceived gain when leaving.

So remaining and working from within will avoid the short-term hurt and allow the UK to continue to negotiate from a stronger position. Much has been blamed on Brussels that is a nonsense; far more good is achieved together than as separate Countries intent upon isolationism.

But the UK will decide what it wants and live with the decision it makes. Personally, I'm outta here anyway to warmer climes, a simpler Life, fewer working hours and less stress!

[danllama]

Coolbanana said:

Interesting post...

It's funny how we have completely opposite feelings about the EU but I can understand your points and why you might think them. Cheers to your last statement. Sounds good to me.

[turbobloke]

danllama said:

Custard indeed. Everybody who knows me says the one thing they like about me is I say I will do something, and I do it. We'll see.

I'm not doubting your resolve, the custard comment was tongue-in-cheek and for limpsfield not you!

As it happens I expect to see the custard

[RYH64E]

fido said:

RYH64E said:

I'm old enough to remember life pre-1975, and you would need some very heavily rose tinted glasses to think things were better then than now. I'm not for one minute suggesting that membership of the EU is solely responsible for the improvement in living standards, but imo today's world is a much more comfortable place than back in the good old days (at least, it is in the UK part of the world).

Yes - thanks to Thatcher for economic reforms and deregulation. EU has nothing to do with - in fact it is shrinking as a % of world trade (from over 1/3 to less than 1/5 today).

Whatever the reason, the UK does not have to leave the EU to thrive, we're doing OK as members of the EU, and for those with the drive, initiative and balls to take advantage of the single market it's an opportunity not a threat. Whatever is going wrong in Greece, Spain, Italy et al isn't happening here, we're doing ok within the EU. As is Germany.