So who wants to remain in the EU?
Discussion
TEKNOPUG said:
Post BREXIT, the UK would be the EU's biggest export market - bigger than the US. So are you saying that the EU would not have the best interests of it's member States when negotiating trade deals with the UK? Or are you saying that the EU is incapable of negotiating satisfactory trade deals - "horrible pit falls"? Is the EU incompetent, bureaucratically unmanageable or wilfully neglectful of it Members interests? It doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement for the EU to manage global trade on our behalf.
The current sanction on Russian are risking trade on a not dissimilar level to what might happen if the EU slapped trade santions on the UK, many $hundreds of billions of trade are at risk, Germany is very much s
tting themselves that the situation with Russian trade isn't ratcheted up. Now you may think that it would be unthinkable that the UK would do something like invading Crimea, it probably is, but there is no "guarantee" that some over zealous leadership or overblown political scenario may happen, it's not as if Europe has had a long history of peace full negotiation.Scuffers said:
FredClogs said:
Why do you think trade agreements exist if they're not needed?
Honestly?you have to ask?
Trade agreements are only required to circumvent market protectionism.
As I said before, the ideal is no trade deals, and the world is actually slowing going this way as it is.
FredClogs said:
The TPP has only just been signed after 8 years of negotiating, doesn't sound to me like the world is going the way you think it is, or should.
look harder.the only reason for it is because of the way the EU works, the rest of the world have moved on.
China does not have a trade deal with the EU, why do you think that is?
TEKNOPUG said:
Post BREXIT, the UK would be the EU's biggest export market - bigger than the US. So are you saying that the EU would not have the best interests of it's member States when negotiating trade deals with the UK? Or are you saying that the EU is incapable of negotiating satisfactory trade deals - "horrible pit falls"? Is the EU incompetent, bureaucratically unmanageable or wilfully neglectful of it Members interests? It doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement for the EU to manage global trade on our behalf.
I would be interested to know where you get the figures from to claim that. It's not at all straight forward to do that calculation as the trade figures produced by Eurostat include re-exports and quasi-transit movement of goods. Are you including the export of services in that claim? If you are I would find it even more unlikely to be correct.plasticpig said:
TEKNOPUG said:
Post BREXIT, the UK would be the EU's biggest export market - bigger than the US. So are you saying that the EU would not have the best interests of it's member States when negotiating trade deals with the UK? Or are you saying that the EU is incapable of negotiating satisfactory trade deals - "horrible pit falls"? Is the EU incompetent, bureaucratically unmanageable or wilfully neglectful of it Members interests? It doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement for the EU to manage global trade on our behalf.
I would be interested to know where you get the figures from to claim that. It's not at all straight forward to do that calculation as the trade figures produced by Eurostat include re-exports and quasi-transit movement of goods. Are you including the export of services in that claim? If you are I would find it even more unlikely to be correct.TEKNOPUG said:
That's straight from the European Commission Trade Export Helpdesk, figures for 2014. I assume they know what their are figures and are correct. If not, well, it would suggest that the EU don't know what they are talking about....
Those are goods only statistics they don't include services. Scuffers said:
FredClogs said:
The TPP has only just been signed after 8 years of negotiating, doesn't sound to me like the world is going the way you think it is, or should.
look harder.the only reason for it is because of the way the EU works, the rest of the world have moved on.
China does not have a trade deal with the EU, why do you think that is?
This may be another Australia/Austria mix up.
Scuffers said:
Zod said:
Oh, it's all so clear and simple. Thank you so much. I don't know why there is even a debate. I want my 8% now!
so, let me get this right, you think that Prof. Minford is wrong then?Please tell us all where he has got it all wrong?
Scuffers said:
///ajd said:
Sounds like he's been drinking the same stuff as those economists who said Salmond could have a currency union, and oil was worth eleventy trillion groats and would fund his bigotry for a thousand year reign!
Specifics?Where is he wrong and why?
Standard Nationalist technique - it works with around 36% of any given the population.
Scuffers said:
///ajd said:
Sounds like he's been drinking the same stuff as those economists who said Salmond could have a currency union, and oil was worth eleventy trillion groats and would fund his bigotry for a thousand year reign!
Specifics?Where is he wrong and why?
He lectured me at uni and one of my other lecturers was an advisor to Tony Blair. I am sure he would have a different analysis if the position. There are probably almost as many views as there are economists.
FredClogs said:
And that's the US - EU who do some $1trillion dollars of trade a year, our small island would be left having to double up on these political and diplomatic efforts to even begin to start a fruitful relationship with either side, do we have the skills to do this? Have we even got an inkling of where to start? If the US were to enter into some kind of TPP type conversation with the UK alone would we stand any hope of not loosing our shirts?
Quite easily. Read a little about TTIP or indeed any of the trade deals the EU has tried to set up and you'll realise that the reason they take so bloody long to sort out is that there are so many countries with differing problems, foibles and requirements to deal with. If the EU had not been in the way it's my firm belief that we would have been able to get trade deals with many more countries than we have already. FredClogs said:
Why do you think trade agreements exist if they're not needed?
Tell me, if you invented a product and got it made. Lets assume you wanted to sell it into France. Who would you deal or trade with to do this, and what would the EU do to support you in the process?I can tell you now, they would do nothing unless you are a billion £$€ entity that keeps bureaucrats or politicians in non jobs.
Trade agreements are not needed, they only stifle trade and damage the host country concerned.
FredClogs said:
Esseesse said:
We don't need some kind of convoluted TPP/TTIP type arrangement to trade with people. That's exactly what we're trying to get away from with the EU.
You don't think the US would require something like that to trade with us, that's the point and yet they require these contract, gurantees and agreements with the EU and pacific rim. Hmmm, have you ever dealt with US customs or import/export regs, they love a bit of paper work on the side the Americans do.Why do you think trade agreements exist if they're not needed?
I bet that you cannot answer the question, because you know nothing at all about international trade.
I have placed an order on an American supplier today. The goods will be delivered to us on Monday. There will be no duty payable. What difference do you think a "trade deal" would make?
I fax over the order. The goods arrive in three days. I pay a month later.
This is exactly the same as dealing with France or Poland.
In fact, I can think of an instance where trading with Europe would become easier if we leave.
At the moment, if I sell something outside the EU, I don't charge VAT. There is no VAT on exports.
If I sell something a VAT registered business in the EU, I also do not have to charge VAT. However, I do have to get their VAT number. I also have to keep a record of such transactions, and report them separately. So, believe it or not, it is easier for me to sell something to the US than to France.
If we Brexit, then it will become easier for me to sell to Europe.
My operating costs will be lower.
Some other benefits of Brexit:-
I might only have two rubbish bins, instead of four.
We might have less flooding because the EU won't be able to stop us dredging our rivers.
Electricity might be cheaper because we would be free to ignore all the CO2 bulls
t. Two years ago, we had a cold winter which saw an extra 30,000 deaths because people struggled to keep warm. That is 30,000, mainly elderly, people who at the altar of ignorant, sanctimonious, greenies. We would be £55m a day better off! That would build a new hospital every fortnight, or a new school every day.
In ten days we could reverse all the cuts that have been made in the police service.
In fact, we could reverse all of Osborne's austerity cuts, and still reduce borrowing by more than £50Bn.
What astounds me is that sane people who could clearly see that Brown was bankrupting the country cannot see that Osborne is even worse.
I guess the EU is doomed thread got stale after it kept on and on and on like the Duracell bunny.
Now it's watered down to be "So who wants to remain in the EU? "
Next few years will be
" Can we work in the EU"
"How can we work the EU to our advantage"
Finally
"How I stopped worrying and learned to love the EU"
Now it's watered down to be "So who wants to remain in the EU? "
Next few years will be
" Can we work in the EU"
"How can we work the EU to our advantage"
Finally
"How I stopped worrying and learned to love the EU"
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