So who wants to remain in the EU?
Discussion
Look I'm getting tired of this, but in the best interests of the truth must pick up on something above.
Just been claimed 55million per day saving. Stop making stuff up for Christ's sake, the remainders can drive a bus through the holes in the arguments.
55million a day is the gross amount. If we Brexit then we have to allow for payments to replace CAP and other funding so people aren't left high and dry. Then if we're going to have some sort of decent workable relationship with the remainder of the EU we will, WILL, be paying something into the kitty. Just face facts and realities please.
Savings are probably initially going to be about 2billion, or 5.5 million per day. Not to be sneezed at but nothing like 55 million, more like a tenth of that.
Don't get me wrong, I want to leave the EU as much as anyone, voted no in 75 as could see what a crock of effluent it was, especially CAP. But presenting arguments that are just plain wrong allows the remainders to argue convincingly that folks don't know what they're talking about.
Just been claimed 55million per day saving. Stop making stuff up for Christ's sake, the remainders can drive a bus through the holes in the arguments.
55million a day is the gross amount. If we Brexit then we have to allow for payments to replace CAP and other funding so people aren't left high and dry. Then if we're going to have some sort of decent workable relationship with the remainder of the EU we will, WILL, be paying something into the kitty. Just face facts and realities please.
Savings are probably initially going to be about 2billion, or 5.5 million per day. Not to be sneezed at but nothing like 55 million, more like a tenth of that.
Don't get me wrong, I want to leave the EU as much as anyone, voted no in 75 as could see what a crock of effluent it was, especially CAP. But presenting arguments that are just plain wrong allows the remainders to argue convincingly that folks don't know what they're talking about.
KrissKross said:
Tell me, if you invented a product and got it made. Lets assume you wanted to sell it into France. Who would you deal or trade with to do this, and what would the EU do to support you in the process?
I can tell you now, they would do nothing unless you are a billion £$€ entity that keeps bureaucrats or politicians in non jobs.
Trade agreements are not needed, they only stifle trade and damage the host country concerned.
You have fundamentally misunderstood what we're talking about here. I can tell you now, they would do nothing unless you are a billion £$€ entity that keeps bureaucrats or politicians in non jobs.
Trade agreements are not needed, they only stifle trade and damage the host country concerned.
TO illustrate that the desire to get out of the EU crosses over all sides of the political spectrum, 'Grassroots Out' is holding their next event in London on Friday 19th February. Nigel Farage will be speaking alongside the co-founders of GO, Conservative MPs Peter Bone and Tom Pursglove, and Labour MP Kate Hoey, with Sir Bill Cash MP, David Davis MP, Trade Union activist John Foreman and economist Ruth Lea also speaking.
FiF said:
Look I'm getting tired of this, but in the best interests of the truth must pick up on something above.
Just been claimed 55million per day saving. Stop making stuff up for Christ's sake, the remainders can drive a bus through the holes in the arguments.
55million a day is the gross amount. If we Brexit then we have to allow for payments to replace CAP and other funding so people aren't left high and dry. Then if we're going to have some sort of decent workable relationship with the remainder of the EU we will, WILL, be paying something into the kitty. Just face facts and realities please.
Savings are probably initially going to be about 2billion, or 5.5 million per day. Not to be sneezed at but nothing like 55 million, more like a tenth of that.
Don't get me wrong, I want to leave the EU as much as anyone, voted no in 75 as could see what a crock of effluent it was, especially CAP. But presenting arguments that are just plain wrong allows the remainders to argue convincingly that folks don't know what they're talking about.
whilst you're right in what you're getting at the numbers are still wrong.Just been claimed 55million per day saving. Stop making stuff up for Christ's sake, the remainders can drive a bus through the holes in the arguments.
55million a day is the gross amount. If we Brexit then we have to allow for payments to replace CAP and other funding so people aren't left high and dry. Then if we're going to have some sort of decent workable relationship with the remainder of the EU we will, WILL, be paying something into the kitty. Just face facts and realities please.
Savings are probably initially going to be about 2billion, or 5.5 million per day. Not to be sneezed at but nothing like 55 million, more like a tenth of that.
Don't get me wrong, I want to leave the EU as much as anyone, voted no in 75 as could see what a crock of effluent it was, especially CAP. But presenting arguments that are just plain wrong allows the remainders to argue convincingly that folks don't know what they're talking about.
the £55m a day is a 3 year old figure, it's somewhat more than that in 2016, and this does not take into account the one-off charges, like the £1.7Bn we got hit with last year.
the current forecast for 2015/2016 is between 10.7-12.1Bn, ie, £29-33M a day.
that's far from insignificant, and certainly more than your £5.5M/day.
Scuffers said:
nice, trying to trivialise some £22Bn a year spending,
ie. half our welfare budget, or half the defence budget
or enough money sort out our roads properly, etc etc etc.
and that's before you remember the £1.7Bn surcharge we got hit with.
I'm not trivializing it, I'm putting it in context. 1.6% is simply not a great deal. 1.6% of anything is not a lot funnily enough ie. half our welfare budget, or half the defence budget
or enough money sort out our roads properly, etc etc etc.
and that's before you remember the £1.7Bn surcharge we got hit with.
TEKNOPUG said:
Mario149 said:
1.6% of our public spending. Even if we did get all of that back and didn't lose anything, you're not going to notice any huge change for the better same as you wouldn't if someone gave you a 1.6% pay rise.
If I give you my Paypal details, can you send me 1.6% of your annual salary please?TEKNOPUG said:
So it's been 24 hours since I asked if anyone could provide factual evidence of why being part of the EU is beneficial to the UK and how those benefits would be lost if we left but still no takers. Have we drawn a blank? It's quite difficult to form a considered opinion without any.
There are no "facts" on either side, that's the problem. It's all supposition, assumption, best guesses of what might happen if etcScuffers said:
FiF said:
Look I'm getting tired of this, but in the best interests of the truth must pick up on something above.
Just been claimed 55million per day saving. Stop making stuff up for Christ's sake, the remainders can drive a bus through the holes in the arguments.
55million a day is the gross amount. If we Brexit then we have to allow for payments to replace CAP and other funding so people aren't left high and dry. Then if we're going to have some sort of decent workable relationship with the remainder of the EU we will, WILL, be paying something into the kitty. Just face facts and realities please.
Savings are probably initially going to be about 2billion, or 5.5 million per day. Not to be sneezed at but nothing like 55 million, more like a tenth of that.
Don't get me wrong, I want to leave the EU as much as anyone, voted no in 75 as could see what a crock of effluent it was, especially CAP. But presenting arguments that are just plain wrong allows the remainders to argue convincingly that folks don't know what they're talking about.
whilst you're right in what you're getting at the numbers are still wrong.Just been claimed 55million per day saving. Stop making stuff up for Christ's sake, the remainders can drive a bus through the holes in the arguments.
55million a day is the gross amount. If we Brexit then we have to allow for payments to replace CAP and other funding so people aren't left high and dry. Then if we're going to have some sort of decent workable relationship with the remainder of the EU we will, WILL, be paying something into the kitty. Just face facts and realities please.
Savings are probably initially going to be about 2billion, or 5.5 million per day. Not to be sneezed at but nothing like 55 million, more like a tenth of that.
Don't get me wrong, I want to leave the EU as much as anyone, voted no in 75 as could see what a crock of effluent it was, especially CAP. But presenting arguments that are just plain wrong allows the remainders to argue convincingly that folks don't know what they're talking about.
the £55m a day is a 3 year old figure, it's somewhat more than that in 2016, and this does not take into account the one-off charges, like the £1.7Bn we got hit with last year.
the current forecast for 2015/2016 is between 10.7-12.1Bn, ie, £29-33M a day.
that's far from insignificant, and certainly more than your £5.5M/day.
https://fullfact.org/economy/our-eu-membership-fee...
Bargain
don4l said:
Why do you think that we need a trade agreement with the US?
I bet that you cannot answer the question, because you know nothing at all about international trade.
I have placed an order on an American supplier today. The goods will be delivered to us on Monday. There will be no duty payable. What difference do you think a "trade deal" would make?
I fax over the order. The goods arrive in three days. I pay a month later.
This is exactly the same as dealing with France or Poland.
In fact, I can think of an instance where trading with Europe would become easier if we leave.
At the moment, if I sell something outside the EU, I don't charge VAT. There is no VAT on exports.
If I sell something a VAT registered business in the EU, I also do not have to charge VAT. However, I do have to get their VAT number. I also have to keep a record of such transactions, and report them separately. So, believe it or not, it is easier for me to sell something to the US than to France.
If we Brexit, then it will become easier for me to sell to Europe.
My operating costs will be lower.
That. The only people whining about post-Brexit trading don't seem to realise we don't actually need any trade agreements to 'trade'. Seller and buyer will carry on exactly as they have before, but with a very thick layer of EU red tape crap removed.I bet that you cannot answer the question, because you know nothing at all about international trade.
I have placed an order on an American supplier today. The goods will be delivered to us on Monday. There will be no duty payable. What difference do you think a "trade deal" would make?
I fax over the order. The goods arrive in three days. I pay a month later.
This is exactly the same as dealing with France or Poland.
In fact, I can think of an instance where trading with Europe would become easier if we leave.
At the moment, if I sell something outside the EU, I don't charge VAT. There is no VAT on exports.
If I sell something a VAT registered business in the EU, I also do not have to charge VAT. However, I do have to get their VAT number. I also have to keep a record of such transactions, and report them separately. So, believe it or not, it is easier for me to sell something to the US than to France.
If we Brexit, then it will become easier for me to sell to Europe.
My operating costs will be lower.
Mrr T said:
TEKNOPUG said:
So it's been 24 hours since I asked if anyone could provide factual evidence of why being part of the EU is beneficial to the UK and how those benefits would be lost if we left but still no takers. Have we drawn a blank? It's quite difficult to form a considered opinion without any.
You may not have received a reply because you did not say what you consider the alternative. The alternative take 3 forms:1. EU exit but Swiss type treaty with EU - The Swiss option.
2. EU exit but remain in the EEA - The Norway option.
3. EU exit no agreements with the EU.
If your alternative is option 3 I would suggest a number of benefits of EU membership.
1. EU Financial Passport which has allowed the UK to become the main centre for EU financial services creating thousands of jobs.
2. Mutual acceptance of product standards.
3. S1/E121 health system.
4. Free movement of Labour.
5. Efficiency of border crossing for goods.
I am sure I can think of more.
There ya go - I'm in
FiF said:
Look I'm getting tired of this, but in the best interests of the truth must pick up on something above.
Just been claimed 55million per day saving. Stop making stuff up for Christ's sake, the remainders can drive a bus through the holes in the arguments.
55million a day is the gross amount. If we Brexit then we have to allow for payments to replace CAP and other funding so people aren't left high and dry. Then if we're going to have some sort of decent workable relationship with the remainder of the EU we will, WILL, be paying something into the kitty. Just face facts and realities please.
Savings are probably initially going to be about 2billion, or 5.5 million per day. Not to be sneezed at but nothing like 55 million, more like a tenth of that.
Don't get me wrong, I want to leave the EU as much as anyone, voted no in 75 as could see what a crock of effluent it was, especially CAP. But presenting arguments that are just plain wrong allows the remainders to argue convincingly that folks don't know what they're talking about.
TBH, I did a little research before posting, and the lowest nett figure that I found was £8Bn. However I didn't think that the source was trustworthy, so I went with the gross figure.Just been claimed 55million per day saving. Stop making stuff up for Christ's sake, the remainders can drive a bus through the holes in the arguments.
55million a day is the gross amount. If we Brexit then we have to allow for payments to replace CAP and other funding so people aren't left high and dry. Then if we're going to have some sort of decent workable relationship with the remainder of the EU we will, WILL, be paying something into the kitty. Just face facts and realities please.
Savings are probably initially going to be about 2billion, or 5.5 million per day. Not to be sneezed at but nothing like 55 million, more like a tenth of that.
Don't get me wrong, I want to leave the EU as much as anyone, voted no in 75 as could see what a crock of effluent it was, especially CAP. But presenting arguments that are just plain wrong allows the remainders to argue convincingly that folks don't know what they're talking about.
That was a minor point in a long post.
andy43 said:
That. The only people whining about post-Brexit trading don't seem to realise we don't actually need any trade agreements to 'trade'. Seller and buyer will carry on exactly as they have before, but with a very thick layer of EU red tape crap removed.
You are making a major assumption that leaving the EU will remove red tape. The government will still need to compile trade statistics so companies will still need to complete ESL and Intrastat declarations or something very similar. Companies selling into the EU would still need to comply with EU labeling regulations. I really don't see that the regulatory regime would change that much. We will still have a working time regulations. and there will still be testing and certification requirements. Mario149 said:
There are no "facts" on either side, that's the problem. It's all supposition, assumption, best guesses of what might happen if etc
you pro in and I'm (on balance) pro out - but in this case you have nailed it. 100% correct, ANYONE (in or out) who claims to know exactly what will happen is a liar at bestirocfan said:
you pro in and I'm (on balance) pro out - but in this case you have nailed it. 100% correct, ANYONE (in or out) who claims to know exactly what will happen is a liar at best
Is it a lie to say that Westminster won't be dictated to and that our Supreme court will be supreme when we leave? For that is all I really care about. If something else needs fixing after leaving, if the above is true then it can be fixed.Esseesse said:
Is it a lie to say that Westminster won't be dictated to and that our Supreme court will be supreme when we leave? For that is all I really care about. If something else needs fixing after leaving, if the above is true then it can be fixed.
Yes it would be a lie. The UK would still be subject to decisions form the European Court of Human Rights. plasticpig said:
Esseesse said:
Is it a lie to say that Westminster won't be dictated to and that our Supreme court will be supreme when we leave? For that is all I really care about. If something else needs fixing after leaving, if the above is true then it can be fixed.
Yes it would be a lie. The UK would still be subject to decisions form the European Court of Human Rights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Europe#Hi...
plasticpig said:
Esseesse said:
Is it a lie to say that Westminster won't be dictated to and that our Supreme court will be supreme when we leave? For that is all I really care about. If something else needs fixing after leaving, if the above is true then it can be fixed.
Yes it would be a lie. The UK would still be subject to decisions form the European Court of Human Rights. FredClogs said:
Indeed, as Mr Churchill wanted when he pushed for the Council of Europe and declared he wanted a "Kind of United States of Europe".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Europe#Hi...
Here is the speech in we he proposed a United States of Europe.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Europe#Hi...
Note the final sentence;-
Winston Churchill said:
Great Britain, the British Commonwealth of Nations, mighty America, and I trust Soviet Russia - for then indeed all would be well - must be the friends and sponsors of the new Europe and must champion its right to live and shine.
Which makes it quite clear that he intended Britain to be a friend to the new state, not a member.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff