So the scaremongering has started in earnest...
Discussion
VolvoT5 said:
My instinct is to vote OUT but I could be persuaded by a strong IN argument. However the more bulls
t I hear from the PM and establishment the more I want to vote leave. Why can't they just be honest and admit the EU has massive flaws and this deal isn't particularly good, but then make their argument for why staying in is still better than leaving?
I just don't buy the scare stories that we are going to face economic crash and be 'swamped' by immigrants if we leave the EU.
I'm also disappointing that there doesn't appear to be a strong left OUT voice at the moment. In my view the EU is very much a neo liberal project that represents big business and the elite. For those that favour left / social democratic policies I would have thought getting out would be a good thing as clearly the EU will not allow opposing policies to be implemented by member states. Just look at TTIP which could really have huge implications for the NHS.
Surely we are mandated by the EU to allow inter-EU migrants? t I hear from the PM and establishment the more I want to vote leave. Why can't they just be honest and admit the EU has massive flaws and this deal isn't particularly good, but then make their argument for why staying in is still better than leaving?I just don't buy the scare stories that we are going to face economic crash and be 'swamped' by immigrants if we leave the EU.
I'm also disappointing that there doesn't appear to be a strong left OUT voice at the moment. In my view the EU is very much a neo liberal project that represents big business and the elite. For those that favour left / social democratic policies I would have thought getting out would be a good thing as clearly the EU will not allow opposing policies to be implemented by member states. Just look at TTIP which could really have huge implications for the NHS.
So if we leave the EU we do not need to take migrants under the EU agreement and instead would be subject to our own laws?
Unless i have mis understood..
R8VXF said:
CarreraLightweightRacing said:
R8VXF said:
I think what is being alluded to is that the French would not be doing any checks on exit from France (so as to rid themselves of the problem), so yes they could just get on the trains or boats and arrive on our shores. Currently, the British immigration is on French turf and vice versa.
The French never have, it is the British who check the passports for those leaving CalaisIf we leave the EU, the French will close down our access to do the checking over there, and then wouldn't do any exit checks themselves.
alfie2244 said:
R8VXF said:
If they have a ticket then the companies will allow them on board if there are no official checks being made I guess.
What like the airlines do?VolvoT5 said:
I'm also disappointing that there doesn't appear to be a strong left OUT voice at the moment. In my view the EU is very much a neo liberal project that represents big business and the elite. For those that favour left / social democratic policies I would have thought getting out would be a good thing as clearly the EU will not allow opposing policies to be implemented by member states. Just look at TTIP which could really have huge implications for the NHS.
The traditional pro-British/Soviet Union left (like Wedgy Benn) were suspicious of the EU, but the newer generation recognise the fantastic troughing opportunities it provides. All that humanist 'people working together' crap appeals to them too, despite most of them never having done a day's work their entire life.Just a thought on the whole passport checking by airlines. All they are doing is checking your id, not whether you have a valid visa/entitlement to travel to another country. This means that any Syrians with passports could potentially (legally) travel across the channel, to then only be caught by our border force on arrival on our shores.
R8VXF said:
Just a thought on the whole passport checking by airlines. All they are doing is checking your id, not whether you have a valid visa/entitlement to travel to another country. This means that any Syrians with passports could potentially (legally) travel across the channel, to then only be caught by our border force on arrival on our shores.
rubbish.Airlines are responsible for bringing people into countries, if they do not check and bring somebody that's not allowed it, they are responsible for deporting them and paying the fines.
try getting on a flight to the US without the right paperwork, so how far you get.
R8VXF said:
Just a thought on the whole passport checking by airlines. All they are doing is checking your id, not whether you have a valid visa/entitlement to travel to another country. This means that any Syrians with passports could potentially (legally) travel across the channel, to then only be caught by our border force on arrival on our shores.
You simply tell ferry operatives not to allow travel to any passengers holding a passport from X or without a UK approved travel VISA.Scuffers said:
rubbish.
Airlines are responsible for bringing people into countries, if they do not check and bring somebody that's not allowed it, they are responsible for deporting them and paying the fines.
try getting on a flight to the US without the right paperwork, so how far you get.
BullsAirlines are responsible for bringing people into countries, if they do not check and bring somebody that's not allowed it, they are responsible for deporting them and paying the fines.
try getting on a flight to the US without the right paperwork, so how far you get.
t, When I got re-routed via the states from Schipol I never gave KLM my ESTA details that I had applied for at Schipol. I have NEVER given an airline details of Visa's, my Passport number for API yes, but never Visa details.R8VXF said:
Bullst, When I got re-routed via the states from Schipol I never gave KLM my ESTA details that I had applied for at Schipol. I have NEVER given an airline details of Visa's, my Passport number for API yes, but never Visa details.
rubbish.t, When I got re-routed via the states from Schipol I never gave KLM my ESTA details that I had applied for at Schipol. I have NEVER given an airline details of Visa's, my Passport number for API yes, but never Visa details.US does not allow any plane to even leave the airport without having the full qualified passenger list.
they have your passport number/name/etc hours before, and if you don't have a visa, the plane will not be allowed to leave for the US.
you only have to look at stories like this to realise how it works:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3371472/Da...
even if you're just transiting the US, they want to know *everything*.
R8VXF said:
That is what I said...
If we leave the EU, the French will close down our access to do the checking over there, and then wouldn't do any exit checks themselves.
Unless you know this for a fact, stop spreading utter twaddle, FGS.If we leave the EU, the French will close down our access to do the checking over there, and then wouldn't do any exit checks themselves.
Edited by Pothole on Monday 8th February 15:45
BlackLabel said:
Then just shut the tunnel! How difficult can that be? It's a fk1ng tube with two ends!xjay1337 said:
I think this is only the start of the scaremongering.
That's because it works - lots of people simply vote for the least-worst option so whilst they may not like the EU if you paint a bad enough picture of what life would be like if we leave you've just got yourself a load of votes.Cameron did the same at the general election - he spoke less about what the future of Britain would look like under a Conservative government and more about what it would be like under a Labour-SNP government.
The question is how do the Brexit campaigners counter this?
fido said:
BlackLabel said:
Then just shut the tunnel! How difficult can that be? It's a fk1ng tube with two ends!Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff