Balanced Question Time panel tonight - of course not! VOL 2

[Halb]

Portillo making good points on wealth inequality there.

[Welshbeef]

Halb said:

Portillo making good points on wealth inequality there.

Do we care about wealth inequality?
More people I know have done well or are more than happy with the life they have.

We’d all love to be millionaires with private jets but when all is said and done just having fun is what matters - which more often than not can be totally free.

[DeejRC]

Welshbeef said:

Halb said:

Portillo making good points on wealth inequality there.

Do we care about wealth inequality?
More people I know have done well or are more than happy with the life they have.

We’d all love to be millionaires with private jets but when all is said and done just having fun is what matters - which more often than not can be totally free.

I must admit, that is one area of life I find that Continental Europe has a better take on than Brits. The balance of life they have in general I think is just something they have a better grasp on than the UK.

If you are not careful, its very easy to get hacked off with the perspective of the depressive nature of life in the UK.

[The Dangerous Elk]

DeejRC said:

I must admit, that is one area of life I find that Continental Europe has a better take on than Brits. The balance of life they have in general I think is just something they have a better grasp on than the UK.

If you are not careful, its very easy to get hacked off with the perspective of the depressive nature of the News/BBC/Press and Some People in the UK.

FTFY

[tangerine_sedge]

Welshbeef said:

Do we care about wealth inequality?
More people I know have done well or are more than happy with the life they have.

We’d all love to be millionaires with private jets but when all is said and done just having fun is what matters - which more often than not can be totally free.

Wealth inequality is not people with ford fiestas wishing they had mercedes. Its people who dont have a home/cant afford next months rent seeing penthouse flats which are never occupied and just bought for investment.

[Halb]

DeejRC said:

I must admit, that is one area of life I find that Continental Europe has a better take on than Brits. The balance of life they have in general I think is just something they have a better grasp on than the UK.
If you are not careful, its very easy to get hacked off with the perspective of the depressive nature of life in the UK.

Indeed. Sadly though I see the UK going more the way of the USA than Europe, but then, maybe it'll reach critical mass and there'll be a culture shift.

[Cobnapint]

tangerine_sedge said:

Welshbeef said:

Do we care about wealth inequality?
More people I know have done well or are more than happy with the life they have.

We’d all love to be millionaires with private jets but when all is said and done just having fun is what matters - which more often than not can be totally free.

Wealth inequality is not people with ford fiestas wishing they had mercedes. Its people who dont have a home/cant afford next months rent seeing penthouse flats which are never occupied and just bought for investment.

The inequality is there because that's the way our capitalist society works. You do well at school/university, get a good well paid job and live happily ever after.

Some people either do poorly at school because they either can't be arsed or simply haven't got the intellect to do well. That usually affects the type of job and pay you get offered (nobody wants a lazy , or a dunderhead), and so it goes on.
The cream usually always rises to the top. That's the way it has been for hundreds of years and it's the way it always will be.

Unless Corbyn gets in that is.

[Legacywr]

Cobnapint said:

tangerine_sedge said:

Welshbeef said:

Do we care about wealth inequality?
More people I know have done well or are more than happy with the life they have.

We’d all love to be millionaires with private jets but when all is said and done just having fun is what matters - which more often than not can be totally free.

Wealth inequality is not people with ford fiestas wishing they had mercedes. Its people who dont have a home/cant afford next months rent seeing penthouse flats which are never occupied and just bought for investment.

The inequality is there because that's the way our capitalist society works. You do well at school/university, get a good well paid job and live happily ever after.

Some people either do poorly at school because they either can't be arsed or simply haven't got the intellect to do well. That usually affects the type of job and pay you get offered (nobody wants a lazy , or a dunderhead), and so it goes on.
The cream usually always rises to the top. That's the way it has been for hundreds of years and it's the way it always will be.

Unless Corbyn gets in that is.

Agreed, this is also why, I think that people who are intellectually(?) gifted, should pay for their university education.

[iphonedyou]

Legacywr said:

Agreed, this is also why, I think that people who are intellectually(?) gifted, should pay for their university education.

They do. And the current system allows the gifted but poor to attend also.

[Legacywr]

iphonedyou said:

Legacywr said:

Agreed, this is also why, I think that people who are intellectually(?) gifted, should pay for their university education.

They do. And the current system allows the gifted but poor to attend also.

I know, but, some people think they shouldn't have to.

[anonymous-user]

Cobnapint said:

The cream usually always rises to the top. That's the way it has been for hundreds of years and it's the way it always will be.

Unless Corbyn gets in that is.

And st floats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahzNnXex5fY

link NSFW

[Fat Fairy]

Cobnapint said:

The inequality is there because that's the way our capitalist society works. You do well at school/university, get a good well paid job and live happily ever after.

Some people either do poorly at school because they either can't be arsed or simply haven't got the intellect to do well. That usually affects the type of job and pay you get offered (nobody wants a lazy , or a dunderhead), and so it goes on.
The cream usually always rises to the top. That's the way it has been for hundreds of years and it's the way it always will be.

Our system also lets the liar, the bullsh!tter, the con-man get to the top. Its not a perfect system by any means.

How many times have we seen an intellectually unqualified motor-mouth get to the top, where his failings become apparent, to the detriment of many/all?

(I'm specifically looking at you Gordon Brown, but there are others....)

FF

[crankedup]

Cobnapint said:

tangerine_sedge said:

Welshbeef said:

Do we care about wealth inequality?
More people I know have done well or are more than happy with the life they have.

We’d all love to be millionaires with private jets but when all is said and done just having fun is what matters - which more often than not can be totally free.

Wealth inequality is not people with ford fiestas wishing they had mercedes. Its people who dont have a home/cant afford next months rent seeing penthouse flats which are never occupied and just bought for investment.

The inequality is there because that's the way our capitalist society works. You do well at school/university, get a good well paid job and live happily ever after.

Some people either do poorly at school because they either can't be arsed or simply haven't got the intellect to do well. That usually affects the type of job and pay you get offered (nobody wants a lazy , or a dunderhead), and so it goes on.
The cream usually always rises to the top. That's the way it has been for hundreds of years and it's the way it always will be.

Unless Corbyn gets in that is.

This conveniently overlooks the fact that inequality still exists in life chances. These are apparent from school choice for children. the ability to pay which carries through to Uni. Private education is great, if persons are in the financial position to afford that education.

[Halb]

Fat Fairy said:

Our system also lets the liar, the bullsh!tter, the con-man get to the top. Its not a perfect system by any means.

How many times have we seen an intellectually unqualified motor-mouth get to the top, where his failings become apparent, to the detriment of many/all?

THis is partly where Potillo was going, and the entrenched systems in some countries do favour this and the old boys network. It's partly why Portillo stated that democracy and capitalism are not the same thing.

[Cobnapint]

Fat Fairy said:

Cobnapint said:

The inequality is there because that's the way our capitalist society works. You do well at school/university, get a good well paid job and live happily ever after.

Some people either do poorly at school because they either can't be arsed or simply haven't got the intellect to do well. That usually affects the type of job and pay you get offered (nobody wants a lazy , or a dunderhead), and so it goes on.
The cream usually always rises to the top. That's the way it has been for hundreds of years and it's the way it always will be.

Our system also lets the liar, the bullsh!tter, the con-man get to the top. Its not a perfect system by any means.

How many times have we seen an intellectually unqualified motor-mouth get to the top, where his failings become apparent, to the detriment of many/all?

(I'm specifically looking at you Gordon Brown, but there are others....)

FF

True.

Forgot about that idiot.

[AstonZagato]

University and formal education is not the only way to a comfortable life. I agree that there are inequalities that make it easier to succeed if your parents are wealthy. But it doesn't stop you from becoming wealthy. Nor does it stop you from getting wealthier than your own cohort. Then your children will have better life chances (and their children after that).

Social mobility is possible.

[anonymous-user]

AstonZagato said:

.

Social mobility is possible.

And could be made a lot more possible with a few tweaks.

[crankedup]

AstonZagato said:

University and formal education is not the only way to a comfortable life. I agree that there are inequalities that make it easier to succeed if your parents are wealthy. But it doesn't stop you from becoming wealthy. Nor does it stop you from getting wealthier than your own cohort. Then your children will have better life chances (and their children after that).

Social mobility is possible.

Indeed, non degree holding people were seen as factory fodder back on the day and this is still true now. However, as you mention it’s possible for those to break out of the drudgery by attending educational lessons outside of work time. Then move into career education, this route can offer a far more rounded individual into the workplace as a bonus. Look at the CEO of persimmon Homes, he came from brick laying and rose in the ranks. OK it’s
gone wrong now but it shows climbing the ranks is possible, just more difficult perhaps.

[AstonZagato]

desolate said:

AstonZagato said:

Social mobility is possible.

And could be made a lot more possible with a few tweaks.

Agreed. But I would also include in those tweaks, an imprecation to those that discuss inequalities of opportunity to make it clearer that inequality of opportunity does not lead to inequality of outcome, any more than equality of opportunity will lead to equality of outcome. They should emphasise that you can make it today. You can make, to a certain extent, your own luck and cut a path for yourself to some measure of success.The system is NOT totally rigged against you by some faceless elite.

The defining characteristics of success include: hard work, intellect, willingness to make difficult choices, blind luck, academic achievement, risk appetite, support/mentoring. You probably only need three of those. The last three are easier to attain, if you are from a wealthy background. The first three are nothing to do with wealth.

If you tell people they haven't succeeded because the system is rigged against them, then no-one takes personal responsibility for bettering themselves intellectually or financially. If you want to condemn people to poor outcomes, engendering a sense of hopelessness and oppression is the surest way to ensure they fail.

Those that are most passionate about equality of opportunity often view it as a route to equality of outcome (which it never will be). Also, it is easier to believe that one hasn't become rich due to "the system" than that one hasn't succeeded because they have made poor choices or lack the ability.

People unfortunately then can make political careers out of this misery (though equally, one can make political careers out of keeping the structural imbalances that cosset the children of the middle classes).

[FN2TypeR]

AstonZagato said:

University and formal education is not the only way to a comfortable life. I agree that there are inequalities that make it easier to succeed if your parents are wealthy. But it doesn't stop you from becoming wealthy. Nor does it stop you from getting wealthier than your own cohort. Then your children will have better life chances (and their children after that).

Social mobility is possible.

It has massively flatlined however; and it started under the New Labour government