Elite Tax Haven Details Leaked

[anonymous-user]

hyphen said:

"Companies across the EU will be forced to disclose their true owners under new legislation:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/15/eu-t...

Yes well they've just embarrassed themselves with this tax haven black list by discovering that places like Cayman have a beneficial ownership registries and they do not despite their political grandstanding on the issue.

[anonymous-user]

edh said:

fblm said:

...why wouldn't you hack the corporate service providers in Mauritius, Russia, Malta, Lichtenstein, Panama again, Delaware, Seychelles, Philippines, Luxembourg etc...? Either Applebys just had terrible security and were asking for it or, perhaps a little tinfoily, it was politically motivated to put pressure on the UK government. Given German state involvement in previous hacks, and the recipient of the data, the timing does make me wonder... or maybe I'm being paranoid?

Paranoid I think.. ...

Pass the tinfoil!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...

[johnfm]

Not sure if we've covered it, but given Appleby are suing the Guardian and the BBC:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/appleby-v-guardian-...

https://www.caymancompass.com/2017/12/19/appleby-s...



is there even a slim hope of the Guardian facing very chunky damages?

That would be quite sweet.

[anonymous-user]

johnfm said:

...
is there even a slim hope of the Guardian facing very chunky damages?

That would be quite sweet.

There's always a chance. They uncovered a whole lot of not a lot at the expense of a lot of innocent individuals legal and financial privacy...

[johnfm]

fblm said:

johnfm said:

...
is there even a slim hope of the Guardian facing very chunky damages?

That would be quite sweet.

There's always a chance. They uncovered a whole lot of not a lot at the expense of a lot of innocent individuals legal and financial privacy...

The first link is to a half decent legal summary - Guardian and BBC unlikely to have a defence. Be interesting hoe
w the court sees it.

[anonymous-user]

johnfm said:

The first link is to a half decent legal summary - Guardian and BBC unlikely to have a defence. Be interesting hoe
w the court sees it.

Interesting thanks. Worth noting he's the managing partner at Harneys so he's got a horse or two in this race...

[johnfm]

fblm said:

johnfm said:

The first link is to a half decent legal summary - Guardian and BBC unlikely to have a defence. Be interesting hoe
w the court sees it.

Interesting thanks. Worth noting he's the managing partner at Harneys so he's got a horse or two in this race...

Indeed - but at the end of the day information has been stolen, unlawfully obtained or leaked.

The Guardian and the BBC (and the German lot who seem to be at the centre of these leaks) must know that they are on tin ground to publish material that they have acquired unlawfully.

As the articel suggests, there is no public interest defence here.

Hopefully Applebys will prevail and secure meaningful damages - though not sure a UK court has much room if any for punitive damages as they do in the US.

[skwdenyer]

fblm said:

johnfm said:

...
is there even a slim hope of the Guardian facing very chunky damages?

That would be quite sweet.

There's always a chance. They uncovered a whole lot of not a lot at the expense of a lot of innocent individuals legal and financial privacy...

I think the problem is that they uncovered a whole lot of interesting but complex stuff. They haven't put all the pieces together. So there's not much to declare "public interest" over in court.

I know a lot about one client of Appleby / Estera. Their dealings are incredibly dodgy. But Appleby are top-drawer - their end of things will be opaque enough to not leave smoking guns around.

As it happens, the Appleby info *has* thrown up a *lot* of err "useful" information about the party I know which, when added to what I already know from other sources, completes a picture. I won't go into the whys and wherefores, but suffice to say that the complete picture has taken over a year to build up. That's just 1 individual with a small set of businesses spread across Cyprus, Malta, BVI, Belgium, and various other places.

The days of villains wandering into an offshore centre with suitcases of obviously dodgy cash and being "looked after" are long gone as far as I can see. But villainy, money laundering, and tax avoidance on a grand scale are alive and well. There is unlikely to be enough time left in the life of the universe for anyone to fully leverage what the Appleby info has provided.

On which basis, I suspect the Guardian will lose.

[johnfm]

Anyone know how the Appleby -v- Guardian case is progressing?

Interesting that in this prelim case:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2018/104.ht...

It seems that someone is suing the BBC for libel according to the last paragraph of this report:

https://www.step.org/news/applebys-breach-confiden...

Edited by johnfm on Friday 13th April 14:10

[amusingduck]

Germany has issued international arrest warrants for the two founders of the firm at the centre of the tax haven scandal exposed by the Panama Papers data leak, German media reported.

Mossack Fonseca founders Juergen Mossack and Ramon Fonseca, suspected of tax evasion and associating with criminals, will be arrested if they enter the European Union, German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung reported late Monday.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20201020-arr...

[WCZ]

I actually like the idea of tax havens, to have a sercret bank account somewhere exotic in the world with loads of money in incase something happens seems appealing

I wonder if they're even that safe anymore now that there's been so many leaks

[anonymous-user]

WCZ said:

I actually like the idea of tax havens, to have a sercret bank account somewhere exotic in the world with loads of money in incase something happens seems appealing

I wonder if they're even that safe anymore now that there's been so many leaks

Contrary to popular opinion/movies bank accounts in most popular 'tax havens' aren't secret from onshore tax authorities or law enforcement agencies

[juice]

fblm said:

Contrary to popular opinion/movies bank accounts in most popular 'tax havens' aren't secret from onshore tax authorities or law enforcement agencies

I think all Offshore Jurisdictions are signed up to CRS

Note the last entry...

'Nobody mention Delaware'

https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/threads/the-list-...

[LeoSayer]

WCZ said:

I actually like the idea of tax havens, to have a sercret bank account somewhere exotic in the world with loads of money in incase something happens seems appealing

I wonder if they're even that safe anymore now that there's been so many leaks

The Swiss will tell you that banking secrecy isn't the same thing as a tax haven.

As I recall, if you have a Swiss bank account as an UK/EU citizen then you have two options:

1. Maintain secrecy and pay a withholding tax which the Swiss tax authorities then send to the HMRC
2. Allow Swiss tax authorities to disclose your account to HMRC and pay the tax due locally

Or, as you point out, just wait for a leak to happen and everyone finds out what you have.

[WCZ]

LeoSayer said:

The Swiss will tell you that banking secrecy isn't the same thing as a tax haven.

As I recall, if you have a Swiss bank account as an UK/EU citizen then you have two options:

1. Maintain secrecy and pay a withholding tax which the Swiss tax authorities then send to the HMRC
2. Allow Swiss tax authorities to disclose your account to HMRC and pay the tax due locally

Or, as you point out, just wait for a leak to happen and everyone finds out what you have.

what's the best thing to do if you didnt want to be associated at all with a bank account but wanted access to it? i.e to hide it from the goverment

[toohuge]

WCZ said:

what's the best thing to do if you didnt want to be associated at all with a bank account but wanted access to it? i.e to hide it from the goverment

Is this a trap? ...

[anonymous-user]

WCZ said:

what's the best thing to do if you didnt want to be associated at all with a bank account but wanted access to it? i.e to hide it from the goverment

The better you hide it the less likely you'll be to get it back. The government are far more likely to save you from the banks if you play by the rules than the banks are to save you from the government by trying to be clever.

[deckster]

WCZ said:

what's the best thing to do if you didnt want to be associated at all with a bank account but wanted access to it? i.e to hide it from the goverment

Donald? Is that you?

[98elise]

WCZ said:

LeoSayer said:

The Swiss will tell you that banking secrecy isn't the same thing as a tax haven.

As I recall, if you have a Swiss bank account as an UK/EU citizen then you have two options:

1. Maintain secrecy and pay a withholding tax which the Swiss tax authorities then send to the HMRC
2. Allow Swiss tax authorities to disclose your account to HMRC and pay the tax due locally

Or, as you point out, just wait for a leak to happen and everyone finds out what you have.

what's the best thing to do if you didnt want to be associated at all with a bank account but wanted access to it? i.e to hide it from the goverment

Bitcoin, but next week it may be worth half/the same/double.

Also if you forget your password then your money is gone.

[Ayahuasca]

WCZ said:

LeoSayer said:

The Swiss will tell you that banking secrecy isn't the same thing as a tax haven.

As I recall, if you have a Swiss bank account as an UK/EU citizen then you have two options:

1. Maintain secrecy and pay a withholding tax which the Swiss tax authorities then send to the HMRC
2. Allow Swiss tax authorities to disclose your account to HMRC and pay the tax due locally

Or, as you point out, just wait for a leak to happen and everyone finds out what you have.

what's the best thing to do if you didnt want to be associated at all with a bank account but wanted access to it? i.e to hide it from the goverment

Offshore trust of which you are a discretionary beneficiary. Next!