Hillsborough Inquest

Hillsborough Inquest

Author
Discussion

Red 4

10,302 posts

151 months

Wednesday 4th December 2019
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
The point I am trying to make, and one you know to be true, is that your repeated answers of "crowd..because crowd.....crowd innit", fails to address the realistic possibility, indeed probability, indeed almost certainty, that this would not have happened if you repeated the same circumstances, the same venue, and the same useless policing, at the Antiques Roadshow, or the National Annual Conference of Librarians, or a cricket test match, and many other events attended by 50k people. You needed a certain type of crowd.

As for your emotive "footy fans, all animals", I would say not all, but a majority. As I said earlier in the thread, 70s/80s football crowd, 10% hooligans, 5% perfectly behaved, 85% the rest, not out and out hooligans, but overly aggressive, lacking respect for authority, selfish, and generally a pain in the arse. I know as I was one of the 85%. If you behaved today like the 85% behaved then, 95% of the crowd would think you were a complete bell end.
I know what you said.
I am pointing out witness testimony from a police officer who does not share your view. He was there on the day.
He said most fans were well behaved, compliant, etc.
I do not doubt that some fans were worse for drink. It was the norm. Some fans will have been drinking.
However see question 7.
It is in 2 parts.
The inquests jury heard over 2 years of evidence. They know more about the fans behaviour on the day than you ever will.

Phil Dicky

6,565 posts

227 months

Wednesday 4th December 2019
quotequote all
I'm half way through the documentary at the moment. From someone who was watching it live brings back some horrible memories.
But what shocked me was a similar thing happened in 81...with Spurs I wasn't aware. No deaths but fans being pulled from Leppings Lane pens. I mean FFS the warnings were there. How the fk did Wednesday not address this incident..it's staggering.

Red 4

10,302 posts

151 months

Wednesday 4th December 2019
quotequote all
Phil Dicky said:
I'm half way through the documentary at the moment. From someone who was watching it live brings back some horrible memories.
But what shocked me was a similar thing happened in 81...with Spurs I wasn't aware. No deaths but fans being pulled from Leppings Lane pens. I mean FFS the warnings were there. How the fk did Wednesday not address this incident..it's staggering.
I'm glad you are watching it Phil. Sorry to hear about the memories it is bringing back.

Keep watching though. The plot thickens !

There are so many twists and turns to this sorry story.

Bacon Is Proof

4,534 posts

195 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Red 4 said:
Keep watching though. The plot thickens !
Yay!
Exciting tragedy!

Pathetic shoe scrape.

Gone a bit AMG

4,318 posts

161 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Red 4 said:
Phil Dicky said:
I'm half way through the documentary at the moment. From someone who was watching it live brings back some horrible memories.
But what shocked me was a similar thing happened in 81...with Spurs I wasn't aware. No deaths but fans being pulled from Leppings Lane pens. I mean FFS the warnings were there. How the fk did Wednesday not address this incident..it's staggering.
I'm glad you are watching it Phil. Sorry to hear about the memories it is bringing back.

Keep watching though. The plot thickens !

There are so many twists and turns to this sorry story.
You are in need of help. I hope you get it. Quickly.

Cantaloupe

1,056 posts

24 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Phil Dicky said:
I'm half way through the documentary at the moment. From someone who was watching it live brings back some horrible memories.
But what shocked me was a similar thing happened in 81...with Spurs I wasn't aware. No deaths but fans being pulled from Leppings Lane pens. I mean FFS the warnings were there. How the fk did Wednesday not address this incident..it's staggering.
A previous example of a incompetent Police force losing control and the pens being overfilled with impeccably behaved fans ?

Would you adam and eve it .

Red 4

10,302 posts

151 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Gone a bit AMG said:
You are in need of help. I hope you get it. Quickly.
I don't need any help.
I've seen the evidence, read the reports and even watched the documentary about Hillsborough.
Thank you for your concern though. It is touching.
PS I note you have not provided your "evidence" yet - as you said you would in your earlier post. I suspect I will be waiting a very long time for anything meaningful from you.

Edited by Red 4 on Thursday 5th December 01:07

Bacon Is Proof

4,534 posts

195 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Red 4 said:
I don't need any help.
I've seen the evidence, ignored any that doesn't fit in with my long held anti-establishment beliefs, and refused to answer any awkward questions.

Edited by Less of a on Thursday 5th December 08:01

TwigtheWonderkid

35,191 posts

114 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Red 4 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
The point I am trying to make, and one you know to be true, is that your repeated answers of "crowd..because crowd.....crowd innit", fails to address the realistic possibility, indeed probability, indeed almost certainty, that this would not have happened if you repeated the same circumstances, the same venue, and the same useless policing, at the Antiques Roadshow, or the National Annual Conference of Librarians, or a cricket test match, and many other events attended by 50k people. You needed a certain type of crowd.

As for your emotive "footy fans, all animals", I would say not all, but a majority. As I said earlier in the thread, 70s/80s football crowd, 10% hooligans, 5% perfectly behaved, 85% the rest, not out and out hooligans, but overly aggressive, lacking respect for authority, selfish, and generally a pain in the arse. I know as I was one of the 85%. If you behaved today like the 85% behaved then, 95% of the crowd would think you were a complete bell end.
I know what you said.
I am pointing out witness testimony from a police officer who does not share your view. He was there on the day.
He said most fans were well behaved, compliant, etc.
It's funny that we all accept that many in the SYP lied thru their teeth re this incident....except when they say something that suits what we want to believe. Then they are obviously telling the truth.

PurpleTurtle

4,720 posts

108 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Red 4 said:
McGee_22 said:
Nowhere in the answers to questions 1 to 5 do the Inquest Jury state a 'DIRECT CAUSE' to the disaster as you keep stating, and lying about, to people reading this thread.

Please read back and find where you started the insults regarding emergency services.
I have never insulted the emergency services on this thread.
I was a member of the emergency services.
I have commented on the failings at Hillsborough which are well publicised and, in my view, criticism is fully deserved.
You continue to accuse me of lying. I have answered your question. I am not lying.
The verdicts are available for all to see.
I will not continue a dialogue with you.
Bye bye.



Edited by Red 4 on Wednesday 4th December 21:40
Red 4 you mentioned earlier up this thread that you were 'retired from the Police'.

Is that 'retired, feet up' or 'retired, doing something else'?

Not that it really matters, but most people take up a hobby once they retire, rather than sit ranting on PH.

I saw that Jürgen Klopp once went bowling with some Liverpool fans on The Wirral, maybe you could give that a go? They looked like they had a great day.

Nothing that you write here is going to change anything about Hillsborough. Nothing, nada, nichts. Except perhaps the perception that you're an angry man who won't be reasoned with.

We, the good people of PH, can't help you with that, to paraphrase you.


Edited by PurpleTurtle on Thursday 5th December 11:48

Red 4

10,302 posts

151 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
PurpleTurtle said:
Nothing that you write here is going to change anything about Hillsborough. Nothing, nada, nichts. Except perhaps the perception that you're an angry man who won't be reasoned with.

We, the good people of PH, can't help you with that, to paraphrase you.
Thank you for your observations and comments. I have largely ignored them.
I am not angry ( I have no reason to be as I have mentioned repeatedly on this thread) and I can be reasoned with. I am a very reasonable person.
However, any reasoning must be supported by facts and evidence.
Opinion is neither of these.
Lots of posters are content with ignorance about Hilsborough. i include you in that.
That says more about you than it says about me.
Ignorance is never better than knowledge.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you know nothing about.
You ( and many others ) on this thread have turned that into an art form.
I would like to say I am impressed. Sadly, the opposite is true.
I hope you do not apply the same standards to other areas of your life - more fool you if you do.

TwigtheWonderkid

35,191 posts

114 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
PurpleTurtle said:
Not that it really matters, but most people take up a hobby once they retire, rather than sit ranting on PH.
When I retire, this will be my hobby. hehe

Red 4

10,302 posts

151 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
PurpleTurtle said:
Not that it really matters, but most people take up a hobby once they retire, rather than sit ranting on PH.
When I retire, this will be my hobby. hehe
Looking at your post count it already is.
That is an informed opinion based on fact and evidence.
HTH.

Bacon Is Proof

4,534 posts

195 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Red 4 said:
I am a very reasonable person.
I'm afraid we're quite lacking in facts and evidence to support this opinion.

Red 4

10,302 posts

151 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Bacon Is Proof said:
Red 4 said:
I am a very reasonable person.
I'm afraid we're quite lacking in facts and evidence to support this opinion.
To be fair, that is a matter of opinion.
However, the facts ( of which I have knowledge and you do not ) support my opinion.

Another fact is that you have offered nothing to this thread - other than snide commnents and questions which are, frankly, odd.
Why are you posting here ?
Genuine question.

Bacon Is Proof

4,534 posts

195 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
I get paid to irritate nutters by asking them awkward questions, throwing their posts back in their faces and pointing out their obvious flaws.
You'll never change the mind of a whack-job, but you can keep them busy enough to ensure they don't cause any harm in the real world.

It's a service.
It pays well.
It's rewarding.
I really enjoy.
Mocking.
People.

<insert insincere apology and petty sarcasm here>

Hope that helps.
xxx
The Bacon is Proof.

Red 4

10,302 posts

151 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Bacon Is Proof said:
I get paid to irritate nutters by asking them awkward questions, throwing their posts back in their faces and pointing out their obvious flaws.
You'll never change the mind of a whack-job, but you can keep them busy enough to ensure they don't cause any harm in the real world.

It's a service.
It pays well.
It's rewarding.
I really enjoy.
Mocking.
People.

<insert insincere apology and petty sarcasm here>

Hope that helps.
xxx
The Bacon is Proof.
Thank you. Your post speaks volumes.
In other words you are an internet troll.
You must have a very sad life.
I pity you.
Even more so because you think you have thrown hings back in my face.
You have not.
You are a weirdo though. That probably comes as no surprise to you.

Zoobeef

5,922 posts

122 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Red 4 said:
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you know nothing about.
Lots of people - Red, what do you think of Heysel?
Red - I dont know about that to give an opinion.


Irony.

mcdk2

81 posts

196 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Ayahuasca said:
The Hillsborough disaster was 31 years ago.

31 years from the end of the Second World War was 1976.

By 1976 WWII veterans were going on holiday to Germany and Japan.

Fawlty Towers mocking of a Brit who kept mentioning the war was in 1975, 30 years after the war.

Time to move on.
Spot on. However, they are so engrossed in their little historical local event that they can't even begin to appreciate its lack of significance in the world timeline.

Red 4

10,302 posts

151 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
quotequote all
Zoobeef said:
Red 4 said:
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you know nothing about.
Lots of people - Red, what do you think of Heysel?
Red - I dont know about that to give an opinion.


Irony.
Those pesky words again. I told you to invest in a dictionary or get someone to explain what words mean to you.
I have made no comment on Heysel.That is because I do not know enough about it to offer an informed opinion. This is not a difficult concept to grasp for most people. Normal people that is.
I do not see the relevance to Hillsborough though, based on my limited knowledge of events at Heysel.
You should explain ...if you can.