The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2
Discussion
JawKnee said:
The Brexiters are contradicting themselves wildly it is laughable. They say it is impossible to ever change the EU yet they say a vote to remain causes just as much uncertainty as leaving because the EU might change.
Their arguments are falling apart at the seams.
Not sure you are understanding what is actually being said by the Brexit side.Their arguments are falling apart at the seams.
JawKnee said:
The Brexiters are contradicting themselves wildly it is laughable. They say it is impossible to ever change the EU yet they say a vote to remain causes just as much uncertainty as leaving because the EU might change.
Their arguments are falling apart at the seams.
yep all £20 billion of them...Their arguments are falling apart at the seams.
Paxman in Brussels: worth a watch - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaQVzEqO3ME
I nose in on various forums and they all seem to follow the same pattern.
Eu poll favours leave at the top,then the majority of posters are for leave and you get around 3-4 remainders who seem to put up ever more ludicrous arguments as time goes on,"We must be in to have influence","expats will have to come home","brexit will cause recession because no-one will sell to us".
I've noticed they seem to be getting more desperate/vociferous as the 23rd approaches as well and any sort of reasoning is out the window.
Eu poll favours leave at the top,then the majority of posters are for leave and you get around 3-4 remainders who seem to put up ever more ludicrous arguments as time goes on,"We must be in to have influence","expats will have to come home","brexit will cause recession because no-one will sell to us".
I've noticed they seem to be getting more desperate/vociferous as the 23rd approaches as well and any sort of reasoning is out the window.
As expected, if we remain our already large contributions are unlikely to stay at that level, but will increase... http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/topstories/boris-jo...
The issue is the fear (likelihood) of having to bail out struggling Eurozone countries (more basket cases to join of course) and the cost of the migration crisis. Additionally, unemployment in the Eurozone is high and getting higher.
The issue is the fear (likelihood) of having to bail out struggling Eurozone countries (more basket cases to join of course) and the cost of the migration crisis. Additionally, unemployment in the Eurozone is high and getting higher.
steveatesh said:
JawKnee said:
The Brexiters are contradicting themselves wildly it is laughable. They say it is impossible to ever change the EU yet they say a vote to remain causes just as much uncertainty as leaving because the EU might change.
Their arguments are falling apart at the seams.
Not sure you are understanding what is actually being said by the Brexit side.Their arguments are falling apart at the seams.
Funkycoldribena said:
I nose in on various forums and they all seem to follow the same pattern.
Eu poll favours leave at the top,then the majority of posters are for leave and you get around 3-4 remainders who seem to put up ever more ludicrous arguments as time goes on,"We must be in to have influence","expats will have to come home","brexit will cause recession because no-one will sell to us".
I've noticed they seem to be getting more desperate/vociferous as the 23rd approaches as well and any sort of reasoning is out the window.
Leave supporters seem to be, in general, far more vociferous in their opinions than people who want to remain.Eu poll favours leave at the top,then the majority of posters are for leave and you get around 3-4 remainders who seem to put up ever more ludicrous arguments as time goes on,"We must be in to have influence","expats will have to come home","brexit will cause recession because no-one will sell to us".
I've noticed they seem to be getting more desperate/vociferous as the 23rd approaches as well and any sort of reasoning is out the window.
And both sides can do desperate-see Nigel farage's recent comment
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...
I think 'suggesting if you vote to remain you will get raped' (not my words-those of Andrea Leadsom) is pretty preposterous and much more preposterous than any of the statements above.
PS remind me which side is project fear again??
JawKnee said:
Major has more direct experience knowledge of the EU than all of the Brexit camp combined. I think I know who I'd trust.
You support Corbyn, who amongst his many unedifying traits, has dropped his anti-EU stance of many years as soon as he thought he might improve his disastrous popularity rating. Did you trust him before, or only after his conversion? Or did you always trust the tory more?cookie118 said:
Leave supporters seem to be, in general, far more vociferous in their opinions than people who want to remain.
And both sides can do desperate-see Nigel farage's recent comment
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...
I think 'suggesting if you vote to remain you will get raped' (not my words-those of Andrea Leadsom) is pretty preposterous and much more preposterous than any of the statements above.
PS remind me which side is project fear again??
Easy - both sides have ran bloody awful campaigns.. To compound it the media has made it all about personalities and Conservative party fall outs, plus their knowledge of the EU and how it works has been sorely lacking.And both sides can do desperate-see Nigel farage's recent comment
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...
I think 'suggesting if you vote to remain you will get raped' (not my words-those of Andrea Leadsom) is pretty preposterous and much more preposterous than any of the statements above.
PS remind me which side is project fear again??
Sasly the voting public are not getting the serious debate on the mainstream media, I tend to ignore most of it.
Personally I don't think either side should be proud of their fact lite approach to what is the most important decision we will have to make in a generation.
steveatesh said:
Easy - both sides have ran bloody awful campaigns.. To compound it the media has made it all about personalities and Conservative party fall outs, plus their knowledge of the EU and how it works has been sorely lacking.
Sasly the voting public are not getting the serious debate on the mainstream media, I tend to ignore most of it.
Personally I don't think either side should be proud of their fact lite approach to what is the most important decision we will have to make in a generation.
I think that's something that most people on both sides can agree on.Sasly the voting public are not getting the serious debate on the mainstream media, I tend to ignore most of it.
Personally I don't think either side should be proud of their fact lite approach to what is the most important decision we will have to make in a generation.
It's been a pretty shoddy campaign from both sides.
cookie118 said:
Funkycoldribena said:
I nose in on various forums and they all seem to follow the same pattern.
Eu poll favours leave at the top,then the majority of posters are for leave and you get around 3-4 remainders who seem to put up ever more ludicrous arguments as time goes on,"We must be in to have influence","expats will have to come home","brexit will cause recession because no-one will sell to us".
I've noticed they seem to be getting more desperate/vociferous as the 23rd approaches as well and any sort of reasoning is out the window.
Leave supporters seem to be, in general, far more vociferous in their opinions than people who want to remain.Eu poll favours leave at the top,then the majority of posters are for leave and you get around 3-4 remainders who seem to put up ever more ludicrous arguments as time goes on,"We must be in to have influence","expats will have to come home","brexit will cause recession because no-one will sell to us".
I've noticed they seem to be getting more desperate/vociferous as the 23rd approaches as well and any sort of reasoning is out the window.
And both sides can do desperate-see Nigel farage's recent comment
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...
I think 'suggesting if you vote to remain you will get raped' (not my words-those of Andrea Leadsom) is pretty preposterous and much more preposterous than any of the statements above.
PS remind me which side is project fear again??
cookie118 said:
Leave supporters seem to be, in general, far more vociferous in their opinions than people who want to remain.
Both sides have managed to come across as complete idiots in the level of debate they have provided.I would argue that the leave campaign have been been unknowing and therefore unable to say yes or no in claims and the far right section of the leave are what they are already, but the stay have been down right condescending and arrogant especially in the world leaders they have led by the nose across the stage. The Irish PM being the last one I think?
Interesting new approach this morning which is "even if you leave, MPs will vote to retain the single market and will have to give away free movement of labour".
Actually, I think that is a great outcome - we can control migration in due course if we need to by including some max limits in as part of the negotiation, can "do a Norwegian" and ignore loads of regulations, get our seat back on the WTO, keep our seat on the Security Council, negotiate our own free trade agreements and essentially gain associate membership of the EU and therefore let them get closer, which is what they need to do to survive within it.
What's not to like?
There is an argument, presented here is that one reason that Remain have been ignoring the EEA/EFTA option is that:-
a) they realise it's a serious and viable option in the event that Britain does vote Leave.
b) recognising that the Remain campaign is in some trouble and that in the event of a Leave vote, the Remainers will need a path and a game plan that avoids taking the ‘mad’ exit route sketched out by the Official Vote Leave.
c) that means Remainers should now stop attacking the EEA option as a viable route out because they may well soon be selling it to the electorate as parliament’s answer to the British people’s stated wish — to leave the European Union.
As posted yesterday the Market Solution / Flexcit / The Adam Smith Institute proposal is gaining traction as a possible exit route and holding position towards making future changes outside the failing political construct that is the European Union.
a) they realise it's a serious and viable option in the event that Britain does vote Leave.
b) recognising that the Remain campaign is in some trouble and that in the event of a Leave vote, the Remainers will need a path and a game plan that avoids taking the ‘mad’ exit route sketched out by the Official Vote Leave.
c) that means Remainers should now stop attacking the EEA option as a viable route out because they may well soon be selling it to the electorate as parliament’s answer to the British people’s stated wish — to leave the European Union.
As posted yesterday the Market Solution / Flexcit / The Adam Smith Institute proposal is gaining traction as a possible exit route and holding position towards making future changes outside the failing political construct that is the European Union.
///ajd said:
On and on and on with the "just as uncertain with remain".
Its nonsense. With remain we stay in the EU, under current rules and treaties, with lawmakers who are accountable to the MEPs we vote to put in the EU - all 70 of them. Many of them actually turn up to agree or otherwise with the laws being passed - some like Farage don't. The latter is mainly a stain on the UK voters and himself for frittering away our democratic voice in the EU.
The meme does not fit both sides in the same way at all under any kind of rational analysis - another brexit fabrication/lie!
So the 'reforms' Cameron is waving around are bIts nonsense. With remain we stay in the EU, under current rules and treaties, with lawmakers who are accountable to the MEPs we vote to put in the EU - all 70 of them. Many of them actually turn up to agree or otherwise with the laws being passed - some like Farage don't. The latter is mainly a stain on the UK voters and himself for frittering away our democratic voice in the EU.
The meme does not fit both sides in the same way at all under any kind of rational analysis - another brexit fabrication/lie!
ks? So there isn't another Treaty in the offing?
So the Eurocrats haven't already publicly stated that, in certain areas they know they can't achieve a popular mandate for, they'll use 'enhanced cooperation' without veto instead of Treaty?
You point out the '70',as though it's an impressive figure, a symbol of the level of influence we have. How does that work out in MEP per capita? How does that MEP/capita figure compare with other countries?
How can those 70 be demonstrated to be working for the British people, when their oath requires them to work for the aims of the EU, not the aims of the country that elected them?
How can any British voter view a manifesto of the intentions of the candidates (and the EU as a whole) for the period being elected for?
Oh, and please stop with the bulls
t about Switzerland. I've refuted your bullst assertions about immigration control, and the referenda that the Swiss voted for recently to increase that, regardless of impact on membership of the FTA show they don't feel it's as important as you state. loafer123 said:
Interesting new approach this morning which is "even if you leave, MPs will vote to retain the single market and will have to give away free movement of labour".
Actually, I think that is a great outcome - we can control migration in due course if we need to by including some max limits in as part of the negotiation, can "do a Norwegian" and ignore loads of regulations, get our seat back on the WTO, keep our seat on the Security Council, negotiate our own free trade agreements and essentially gain associate membership of the EU and therefore let them get closer, which is what they need to do to survive within it.
What's not to like?
Er... everything if you're referring to this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...Actually, I think that is a great outcome - we can control migration in due course if we need to by including some max limits in as part of the negotiation, can "do a Norwegian" and ignore loads of regulations, get our seat back on the WTO, keep our seat on the Security Council, negotiate our own free trade agreements and essentially gain associate membership of the EU and therefore let them get closer, which is what they need to do to survive within it.
What's not to like?
This is simply a way of ignoring the electorate, strange how the name Kinnock appears in that.
By the way when did the f
king EU give us a place on the Security Council, I think we might have earned that ourselves.Norfolkit said:
By the way when did the fking EU give us a place on the Security Council, I think we might have earned that ourselves.
I think his comment refers to an issue from November last year. The European Parliament voted by a large majority for UK and France to give up their seats on the security council and hand them over to the EU. If the EU were to declare the matter of International Security and exclusive competence then suspect they could just take it.king EU give us a place on the Security Council, I think we might have earned that ourselves.That hasn't stopped Remainders arguing that Brexit would result in UK losing its seat, not quite sure what they were smoking when they thought that, but hey that's Remainders for you, Brexit = Tyrannosaurus Rex charging through the channel tunnel.
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