The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2
Discussion
Pan Pan Pan said:
I have a deep `suspicion' that the vote will somehow be rigged, not unlike other countries which were made to vote several times until the EU got the answer `it' wanted.
As the UK`s continued membership may be even more important to the EU, than those countries, I cannot see why they would not want the UK to vote or continue voting until the EU gets the answer it, and not the people of the UK wants.
Don't forget the EU constitution. This was rejected in referenda by France and the Netherlands. So the EU bigwigs rewrote the constitution as the Treaty of Lisbon and so it was merely down to premiers to sign it. Remember Brown offering a referendum and then ducking it, before scuttling over to Libson to sign by himself to avoid the press?As the UK`s continued membership may be even more important to the EU, than those countries, I cannot see why they would not want the UK to vote or continue voting until the EU gets the answer it, and not the people of the UK wants.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Zod said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
chris watton said:
It would be nice to think that the majority of voters were/are not taken in by Cameron's fantastical claims (I would assume that, whatever the outcome, he is toast, as he hasn't exactly covered himself with glory), and the leave vote wins. I can understand why a lot of Left leaning people like the EU (and with respect, that also include Derek Smith), as they like nothing more than big, intrusive government. What could be bigger than the EU! Of course they love it. I just hope that they are in the slight minority. But won't hold my breath...
I intend take a photo of my completed ballot paper on the 23rd, before putting it in the box (unless there is a valid/legal reason for me not to?) I would suggest that all voters (regardless of which they will vote) do likewise.Given the remain / government campaigns efforts to scare the voting public into voting the way `it' wants, I find myself, for the first time in my life unable to trust what happens to my vote after it has been placed. The fact that this has happened with the Tories in No 10 makes this an all the more depressing thing to have to do.
I have a deep `suspicion' that the vote will somehow be rigged, not unlike other countries which were made to vote several times until the EU got the answer `it' wanted.
As the UK`s continued membership may be even more important to the EU, than those countries, I cannot see why they would not want the UK to vote or continue voting until the EU gets the answer it, and not the people of the UK wants.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Zod said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
chris watton said:
It would be nice to think that the majority of voters were/are not taken in by Cameron's fantastical claims (I would assume that, whatever the outcome, he is toast, as he hasn't exactly covered himself with glory), and the leave vote wins. I can understand why a lot of Left leaning people like the EU (and with respect, that also include Derek Smith), as they like nothing more than big, intrusive government. What could be bigger than the EU! Of course they love it. I just hope that they are in the slight minority. But won't hold my breath...
I intend take a photo of my completed ballot paper on the 23rd, before putting it in the box (unless there is a valid/legal reason for me not to?) I would suggest that all voters (regardless of which they will vote) do likewise.Given the remain / government campaigns efforts to scare the voting public into voting the way `it' wants, I find myself, for the first time in my life unable to trust what happens to my vote after it has been placed. The fact that this has happened with the Tories in No 10 makes this an all the more depressing thing to have to do.
I have a deep `suspicion' that the vote will somehow be rigged, not unlike other countries which were made to vote several times until the EU got the answer `it' wanted.
As the UK`s continued membership may be even more important to the EU, than those countries, I cannot see why they would not want the UK to vote or continue voting until the EU gets the answer it, and not the people of the UK wants.
Pan Pan Pan said:
I have a deep `suspicion' that the vote will somehow be rigged, not unlike other countries which were made to vote several times until the EU got the answer `it' wanted.
Well then, do as I suggested a few posts back and be at the count and do your bit to ensure it isn't rigged.I'm sure they'd be glad of volunteers (they usually are at other elections).
Zod said:
There's no name on your voting slip, so the only chance you have of proving anything with your photo is if there is a 100% Remain vote at your polling station and you come along to protest that it cannot be true because you have a photo of your voting slip, proving that you voted Leave. Don't waste the few kb on the photo.
Isn't there a number on the slip?General Elections certainly use traceable voting slips.
Puggit said:
Apparently with the poll momentum favouring 'leave', the government has swung in to action and targeted non-registered voters.
There has been a massive swing in new registrations, particularly for younger voters. Of course, younger voters tend to believe what they are told and err to the left wing side of things - and favour 'remain'.
Isn't that strange. Once upon a time the young were thought of as rebellious and would have taken the opportunity to go against the government.There has been a massive swing in new registrations, particularly for younger voters. Of course, younger voters tend to believe what they are told and err to the left wing side of things - and favour 'remain'.
confused_buyer said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
I have a deep `suspicion' that the vote will somehow be rigged, not unlike other countries which were made to vote several times until the EU got the answer `it' wanted.
Well then, do as I suggested a few posts back and be at the count and do your bit to ensure it isn't rigged.I'm sure they'd be glad of volunteers (they usually are at other elections).
Esseesse said:
How do you get to do this?
Approach your local Leave or Remain campaign and offer. They then get you a ticket to the count and you can go along and observe.I'd imagine, like most political organisations, they'd welcome any help.
At "normal" elections the Agent and Candidate automatically get tickets but both can also request others as observers. I'd imagine some sort of similar system is in operation for the referendum as most counts seem to be organised along Council lines who ordinarily organise Local and National elections.
Esseesse said:
Hope he's right. But you just know there'll be one last white rabbit that'll be yanked out of the hat at the last minute.I wonder what depths they'll stoop to.
TEKNOPUG said:
Derek Smith said:
What really irritated me was the suggestion as to what processes a government will put in place with regards immigration on exit. This is not, of course, policy. It is a wish.
I think I would have made up my mind earlier if I hand't been worried that I was reacting to Johnson and Gove, two dangerous people, being the head of the exit campaign.
So I'm in.
There was an exit table in my town recently, the £350m a week being mentioned a number of times, but not included on the literature. Why, if there are a multitude of benefits just waiting for us to grab from the trees, do they have to lie?
Not the cruncher argument for me, but the question is a good one and could be asked of a number of claims, especially those that refer to the bright future that both sides hope for.
I don't really understand the point you're trying to make. Maybe it's a bit early in day for me still.I think I would have made up my mind earlier if I hand't been worried that I was reacting to Johnson and Gove, two dangerous people, being the head of the exit campaign.
So I'm in.
There was an exit table in my town recently, the £350m a week being mentioned a number of times, but not included on the literature. Why, if there are a multitude of benefits just waiting for us to grab from the trees, do they have to lie?
Not the cruncher argument for me, but the question is a good one and could be asked of a number of claims, especially those that refer to the bright future that both sides hope for.
The first sentence was criticism about the number of 'what we will do when we exit' claims by the out pack, the most recent being the points system for foreign workers. There is no way they can say this as the campaign sides do not set policy.
Personality politics is rife and is difficulty to avoid. Gove is a micromanager with little in the way of overall view, at least if his time in Education is anything to go by. Johnson, this ultra committed outer, is there for his own personal reasons, nothing to do with the EU. He took some time to decide which side would benefit him most and now we are to believe this is a matter of principle. So it was difficult of me to ignore their personalities and look at the problem logically. I hope I have been able to manage that.
Regards the £350m, it was used by the exit people, just a couple, as a major leg of their argument against staying. The natural conclusion is that if they have to lie to come up with a clincher then they must be struggling. If it is true that leaving will give us a money tree, then why can't they show why?
My problem is that there are no convincing arguments, that goes for either side. So it is up to me to work it out.
This idea that we are 'ruled' by the EU is not true. We are not overwhelmed by the legislation and most of what they do rule on is no problem. So that doesn't run with me. I research and write on a certain subject and recently the US tried to bully the EU into accepting what they want. It has been thrown back in their face and the US has back-pedaled a little, with more to come I reckon. Had it been just the UK that did so we'd have been told to get on with it. Or rather, we'd have been deemed not worthy of a reply.
So without reasons to leave I've got to place emphasis on what I believe to be true. There will be a period - an unspecified period - of financial difficulty during the negotiations and immediately on exit. Everyone of note seems to agree to that. It will be years. I see no reason to vote for problems.
What will happen after that period is anybody's guess, because guess is what it will be. So neither side gets a brownie point there.
As I say, I normally would try to leave making up my mind until the day before the vote but to me it seems clear. For me and my loved ones, I'm voting stay.
Derek Smith said:
So without reasons to leave I've got to place emphasis on what I believe to be true. There will be a period - an unspecified period - of financial difficulty during the negotiations and immediately on exit. Everyone of note seems to agree to that. It will be years. I see no reason to vote for problems.
Sir Stuart Rose, the putative leader of the stay campaign although he seems to have gone quiet, opined that very little would change. Surely he is of note. Also Capital Economics, a respected company also modeled the outcomes and found it could make a small difference either way. Not of note?
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff