The 'No to the EU' campaign Vol 2
Discussion
jjlynn27 said:
Mr_B said:
Dave won't be about, but the point is that once you vote stay, you are reliant on people like Dave when he says one thing one minute, then does an about turn the next min. His successor could be even more loony and be Corbyn with his total open borders dream and complete trust in everyone on everything.
I won't get a vote on Turkey joining and being given total access as per eastern Europe in 2004. Just like then when Labour said 'don't worry about it, our predictions are 13k per year' , the trust has gone and it seems that a majority of people want to see controls on immigration, even if some are remain voters.
What you meant to say is you are reliant on democratically elected people? Be that Dave, Corbyn or someone else? Isn't that the whole point of brexiters complaining about, that you can't vote people 'responsible' out?I won't get a vote on Turkey joining and being given total access as per eastern Europe in 2004. Just like then when Labour said 'don't worry about it, our predictions are 13k per year' , the trust has gone and it seems that a majority of people want to see controls on immigration, even if some are remain voters.
Mr_B said:
Its quiet clear cut to me. Vote out and have total control , or vote in and be reliant on the likes of Dave and heads of the EU to make the right decisions. I think you can guess which I think is best.
Even if you vote out, how do you have total control? What would stop 'Dave and the likes of Dave' to say 'I like Erdogan, here, free visas for Turks'. As long as there is a veto, and there is not one, but two, regardless of what that fearmongering dimwit says, you are relying on democratically elected to represent your interests. In or out. Edited by jjlynn27 on Monday 23 May 19:22
Yes, a PM in a post-EU world could also open up the door to Turkey or even Somalia and Nigeria , or just give them all visa free travel to the UK. The chances of him doing so are nil, because the public wouldn't accept it and he'd commit electoral suicide.
When inside an EU that wants Turkey to join and with a rabidly pro Turkey PM, that chance rises hugely.
The EU is already desperate for a deal to try and clear up their migrant mess and dealing with a corrupt , human rights abusing , leaky ISIS border/buying their oil government of Turkey. Who knows what kinda deal they'll do in the future with Turkey.
It's very simple, without the EU trying to force the PM and country in the direction they want, you get a PM more in tune with what the country wants.
I see you edited you other post regarding Penny Mordaunt after I'd replied to it. Your obsession with it and absolute demand that it is 100% clear and undeniable , says much about how blinkered you are in your rabidly pro EU stance. You might have noted I said it could be one way or the other, but that I believed it wasn't clear and she made a total mess of it.
Anyway, four weeks to go and I have to do some EU internet shopping now. I have to stockpile all my favourite EU foods before they stick a tariff on them to stop me buying and force up by food bill to spite me for having the audacity to vote leave !
Im losing track of all the badness that will happen to us post June 23rd if we leave. Holidays going up in price I see now has been added to the extensive list.
At the rate the doom and gloom has been put out there by Dave and Co I'm going to struggle to get up in the morning soon. I've a birthday in June, thankfully pre referendum, I suspect post Brexit birthdays will also reduce or perhaps be things we can't celebrate anymore or something.
Is the Black Death coming back if we leave? I've lost where we're up to now with it all.
At the rate the doom and gloom has been put out there by Dave and Co I'm going to struggle to get up in the morning soon. I've a birthday in June, thankfully pre referendum, I suspect post Brexit birthdays will also reduce or perhaps be things we can't celebrate anymore or something.
Is the Black Death coming back if we leave? I've lost where we're up to now with it all.
Jon321 said:
Im losing track of all the badness that will happen to us post June 23rd if we leave. Holidays going up in price I see now has been added to the extensive list.
At the rate the doom and gloom has been put out there by Dave and Co I'm going to struggle to get up in the morning soon. I've a birthday in June, thankfully pre referendum, I suspect post Brexit birthdays will also reduce or perhaps be things we can't celebrate anymore or something.
Is the Black Death coming back if we leave? I've lost where we're up to now with it all.
Birthdays were invented by the EU and so you'll have to give them all back if we leave. You won't have to worry about the Black Death though, if we vote out the moon will leave it's orbit and crash into Birmingham.At the rate the doom and gloom has been put out there by Dave and Co I'm going to struggle to get up in the morning soon. I've a birthday in June, thankfully pre referendum, I suspect post Brexit birthdays will also reduce or perhaps be things we can't celebrate anymore or something.
Is the Black Death coming back if we leave? I've lost where we're up to now with it all.
Well, it makes as much sense as the latest drivel.
Jon321 said:
Im losing track of all the badness that will happen to us post June 23rd if we leave. Holidays going up in price I see now has been added to the extensive list.
At the rate the doom and gloom has been put out there by Dave and Co I'm going to struggle to get up in the morning soon. I've a birthday in June, thankfully pre referendum, I suspect post Brexit birthdays will also reduce or perhaps be things we can't celebrate anymore or something.
Is the Black Death coming back if we leave? I've lost where we're up to now with it all.
That's nothing.At the rate the doom and gloom has been put out there by Dave and Co I'm going to struggle to get up in the morning soon. I've a birthday in June, thankfully pre referendum, I suspect post Brexit birthdays will also reduce or perhaps be things we can't celebrate anymore or something.
Is the Black Death coming back if we leave? I've lost where we're up to now with it all.
If we stay you'll hardly be able to spot a white face in a crowd in 10 years time. English will become the second language & we'll all be governed by Sharia Law.
Jon321 said:
Im losing track of all the badness that will happen to us post June 23rd if we leave. Holidays going up in price I see now has been added to the extensive list.
At the rate the doom and gloom has been put out there by Dave and Co I'm going to struggle to get up in the morning soon. I've a birthday in June, thankfully pre referendum, I suspect post Brexit birthdays will also reduce or perhaps be things we can't celebrate anymore or something.
Is the Black Death coming back if we leave? I've lost where we're up to now with it all.
If Dave and Co all gave a public statement / undertaking that they categorically will NOT be taking up a nice, cushy (very) well paid little job in the EU for at least the next 10 years, their position on the UK remaining in the EU might just be acceptable.At the rate the doom and gloom has been put out there by Dave and Co I'm going to struggle to get up in the morning soon. I've a birthday in June, thankfully pre referendum, I suspect post Brexit birthdays will also reduce or perhaps be things we can't celebrate anymore or something.
Is the Black Death coming back if we leave? I've lost where we're up to now with it all.
If they will not, or cannot give this undertaking, we can only suspect that like some remainers, they have a personal vested interest in keeping the UK in the EU, (see such political masterpieces as Mandelson, and the Kinnocks) which is good for them, but at the disastrous expense of the ordinary UK citizen. Only time will tell, but by then it will be too late.
Pan Pan Pan said:
If Dave and Co all gave a public statement / undertaking that they categorically will NOT be taking up a nice, cushy (very) well paid little job in the EU for at least the next 10 years, their position on the UK remaining in the EU might just be acceptable.
If they will not, or cannot give this undertaking, we can only suspect that like some remainers, they have a personal vested interest in keeping the UK in the EU, (see such political masterpieces as Mandelson, and the Kinnocks) which is good for them, but at the disastrous expense of the ordinary UK citizen. Only time will tell, but by then it will be too late.
So you know for a fact that we'd be better off economically in the long term if we left.If they will not, or cannot give this undertaking, we can only suspect that like some remainers, they have a personal vested interest in keeping the UK in the EU, (see such political masterpieces as Mandelson, and the Kinnocks) which is good for them, but at the disastrous expense of the ordinary UK citizen. Only time will tell, but by then it will be too late.
Interesting....
zygalski said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
If Dave and Co all gave a public statement / undertaking that they categorically will NOT be taking up a nice, cushy (very) well paid little job in the EU for at least the next 10 years, their position on the UK remaining in the EU might just be acceptable.
If they will not, or cannot give this undertaking, we can only suspect that like some remainers, they have a personal vested interest in keeping the UK in the EU, (see such political masterpieces as Mandelson, and the Kinnocks) which is good for them, but at the disastrous expense of the ordinary UK citizen. Only time will tell, but by then it will be too late.
So you know for a fact that we'd be better off economically in the long term if we left.If they will not, or cannot give this undertaking, we can only suspect that like some remainers, they have a personal vested interest in keeping the UK in the EU, (see such political masterpieces as Mandelson, and the Kinnocks) which is good for them, but at the disastrous expense of the ordinary UK citizen. Only time will tell, but by then it will be too late.
Interesting....
I am going on facts, Like Bliar giving away extra billions of UK taxpayers cash for reforms to the CAP, where the EU took the extra cash from the UK, but made no reforms whatsoever to the CAP. Didn't give the extra billions back though, did they? No they just kept on taking it.
Or like you being able to claim as a fact, that the UK (or any other member country for that matter) has exactly the same level of influence, and control over the EU as Germany.
Only you can`t can you?.
Or how about the UK being the second largest net contributor to EU coffers, but having less influence in it than France?
Seems like unless you are Germany, the old he who pays the piper saying doesn't really apply in the Uk`s case.
Or how about Merkel inviting millions of immigrants into Germany, and when she realized she had made a colossal mistake, then trying to foist them of on other member states, who were given no say on the matter in the first place.
Or how about the EU so graciously giving the UK some of its OWN money back, and then fining the UK millions of pounds for not spending its OWN money the way the EU wanted it to?
jjlynn27 said:
And? Brexiter unhappy not just with government but with the opposition too. How is that even remotely relevant to bs about UK not being able to veto Turkey joining EU?
There is an interesting take on the Turkey veto : http://mesynon.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/tory-ministe...
Basically the author claims that its not having the veto that is important but whether the Americans allow the UK (or another EU country) to use it. The Americans, apparently, want Turkey to be a member of the EU to tie them into the west and NATO and be a more reliable buffer with Russia.
To achieve this they would make various diplomatic threats until the vote Went the way the USA wanted.
This could, I suppose, go some way to explaining why Cameron has been pushing for Turkeys entry too the EU as a fast track (until of course for referendum purposes he wanted to suggest that Turkey would take years to become members).
Could be true, could be tin foil hat stuff but We never know what's going on behind the scenes do we?
Jon321 said:
Im losing track of all the badness that will happen to us post June 23rd if we leave. Holidays going up in price I see now has been added to the extensive list.
At the rate the doom and gloom has been put out there by Dave and Co I'm going to struggle to get up in the morning soon. I've a birthday in June, thankfully pre referendum, I suspect post Brexit birthdays will also reduce or perhaps be things we can't celebrate anymore or something.
Is the Black Death coming back if we leave? I've lost where we're up to now with it all.
The black death was a Spanish thing wasn't it? I suppose it depends what tariff they put on it when they export it, with all the other stuff we've been promised, we probably won't be able to afford it.At the rate the doom and gloom has been put out there by Dave and Co I'm going to struggle to get up in the morning soon. I've a birthday in June, thankfully pre referendum, I suspect post Brexit birthdays will also reduce or perhaps be things we can't celebrate anymore or something.
Is the Black Death coming back if we leave? I've lost where we're up to now with it all.
Don't worry about your holiday though, you'll be getting an all expenses paid adventure holiday courtesy of the army to wherever WWIII is being fought I understand.
zygalski said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
If Dave and Co all gave a public statement / undertaking that they categorically will NOT be taking up a nice, cushy (very) well paid little job in the EU for at least the next 10 years, their position on the UK remaining in the EU might just be acceptable.
If they will not, or cannot give this undertaking, we can only suspect that like some remainers, they have a personal vested interest in keeping the UK in the EU, (see such political masterpieces as Mandelson, and the Kinnocks) which is good for them, but at the disastrous expense of the ordinary UK citizen. Only time will tell, but by then it will be too late.
So you know for a fact that we'd be better off economically in the long term if we left.If they will not, or cannot give this undertaking, we can only suspect that like some remainers, they have a personal vested interest in keeping the UK in the EU, (see such political masterpieces as Mandelson, and the Kinnocks) which is good for them, but at the disastrous expense of the ordinary UK citizen. Only time will tell, but by then it will be too late.
Interesting....
Yes I think thats a dead cert when you look at greek debt and the mess Italy etc are in , we will be paying to prop up the mess the EU has created .... if we are stupid enough to stay in ...
Edited by powerstroke on Tuesday 24th May 08:16
steveatesh said:
jjlynn27 said:
And? Brexiter unhappy not just with government but with the opposition too. How is that even remotely relevant to bs about UK not being able to veto Turkey joining EU?
There is an interesting take on the Turkey veto : http://mesynon.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/tory-ministe...
Basically the author claims that its not having the veto that is important but whether the Americans allow the UK (or another EU country) to use it. The Americans, apparently, want Turkey to be a member of the EU to tie them into the west and NATO and be a more reliable buffer with Russia.
To achieve this they would make various diplomatic threats until the vote Went the way the USA wanted.
This could, I suppose, go some way to explaining why Cameron has been pushing for Turkeys entry too the EU as a fast track (until of course for referendum purposes he wanted to suggest that Turkey would take years to become members).
Could be true, could be tin foil hat stuff but We never know what's going on behind the scenes do we?
zygalski said:
That settles it then.
May as well not even bother voting now
Not so sure, tbh, still sticking with my prediction, aka guess, in the other direction 58:42. May as well not even bother voting now
The one sector Ashcroft has missed, to some extent but not totally, are the hooples who don't turn out nor have any interest in a GE, but will turn out for a referendum and essentially vote the way the good and the great tell them, eg Govt, Obama, Cumberbatch, Bono.
On the other hand don't have much of an argument to say Ashcroft is wrong.
FiF said:
Ashcroft tweeted it today.
If it is as accurate as his General Election polling then............The problem with Ashcroft's assumptions is that there isn't a great deal of evidence that Conservative voters do split 60/40 Out and in fact most polling evidence suggests it is more likely the other way round.
I think it is fair to say that quite a lot of Conservative activists and members support Out but I'm not convinced this is reflected in Conservative voters.
danllama said:
Thanks for that, interesting post.
The problem with anything like this is you have no idea what sample you are getting.For example, if you take a drive through the Tendring District you will find streets where literally pretty much every house has a "Vote Leave" sign outside and you'd get impression it will be a 95% vote for out.
You then have to remember that the local MP is UKIP.
As anyone who has ever been involved in elections knows you can do a street and come away with the impression that absolutely everyone is going to vote for you and you can't possibly lose. Two days later you do another street and come back convinced you won't get a single vote.
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