Owen Jones

[anonymous-user]

I do appreciate the range of opinion. Fascinating how different people can view the same situation so differently.

[psi310398]

biggbn said:

Apologies if I have but I thought he had been found guilty and the judge had found it was homophobic and politically motivated?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/17/ma...

To be fair, whether it was homophobic and politically motivated or not, he was assaulted and that in itself is out of order, the law being the law.

Thanks for the reference. It appears that the court has indeed found him guilty of aggravated assault. It does not seem to have been widely reported.

And, yes, assault is assault and I've already said earlier in this thread that, as a matter of public policy, whoever the victim is, attacks like this should not be tolerated. Even when on utter s like Jones who themselves advocate violence against those they oppose.

[Escapegoat]

cb31 said:

some good will come out of this on both sides, the attacker will be taken off the streets and Owen Jones will probably not shoot his mouth off to idiots without thinking of the possible results.

And there you have it: simple cause and effect.

The lesson, according to our dear friend cb31, is that we should not say unpalatable things out loud about fascism, homophobia, etc.

[Getragdogleg]

Escapegoat said:

And there you have it: simple cause and effect.

The lesson, according to our dear friend cb31, is that we should not say unpalatable things out loud about fascism, homophobia, etc.

How do you know what he may have been mouthing off about? They could have been arguing about anything.

You jumped to the conclusion that he was saying unpalatable things about fascism etc because it supports your narrative and what you want to have happened.

[zarjaz1991]

Now I'm not a fan of Owen Jones. At all.

However, whilst I suspect it's difficult to prove either way, I'm almost certain this attack will have had at least some homophobic connotations.

And any attack of this nature is unacceptable. And actually, whether it's homophobic or not, it's a bloody disgrace and the types who go around doing this need long ail sentences.

[Ayahuasca]

Is any attack on a well known homosexual homophobic by definition?

I don’t know much about this particular attack, but note that OJ has appeared in the ‘people you wouldn’t get tired of punching in the face’ thread - is that homophobic too?

I note that my joke about OJ being beaten up has been removed as it broke forum rules. Fair enough, but the same joke has appeared on PH before not in connection to OJ and has not been removed.

[gizlaroc]

zarjaz1991 said:

However, whilst I suspect it's difficult to prove either way, I'm almost certain this attack will have had at least some homophobic connotations.

Why?

I didn't know he was gay, I thought is Instagram etc. had pictures of him with his missus.

I just think he is one of those proper bell ends who like to label everyone, call them names and try and justify it with it being 'liberal'.

He is one of those that looks down his nose at those that don't see things the same as he does and is very, very vocal about what an absolute nasty bd you must be if you don't too.
He doesn't even realise just how ironic that is.

He has made his career out of calling people names, and when you do that you will eventually bump into someone who doesn't take too kindly to that. In this instance a bit of a knuckle dragger, but I doubt it will be the last time.

[anonymous-user]

Escapegoat said:

cb31 said:

some good will come out of this on both sides, the attacker will be taken off the streets and Owen Jones will probably not shoot his mouth off to idiots without thinking of the possible results.

And there you have it: simple cause and effect.

The lesson, according to our dear friend cb31, is that we should not say unpalatable things out loud about fascism, homophobia, etc.

I’m pretty sure that the lesson is if you act like a knob then expect there to be consequences.

[otolith]

Where is this idea from that Jones rubbed the knuckledraggers up the wrong way with some impromptu bit of political lecturing? Is there any evidence of it? Or are people getting a bit “ Angry Frank”?

[biggbn]

So just as a thought experiment, if I bumped into the assailant and he launched into a right wing homophobic diatribe that I strongly disagree with, and i felt it was disturbing my company and others, hell, maybe I knew he had a history of this kind of behaviour, and I smashed him up and down the street, that would be acceptable in the eyes of many of you?...and the law regarding such activities is wrong and should have an 'illegal except in circumstances where the victim is a really annoying ar$e'?

Don't get me wrong, were that the case life would instantly become simpler and I would possibly renounce my non violence pact with myself. But it's ridiculous, isn't it? Where would that kind of thought end? Oh, wait, I know...pistonheads!!!

[gizlaroc]

otolith said:

Where is this idea from that Jones rubbed the knuckledraggers up the wrong way ....?

Have you not seen him in the media over the last 5 years?

He has rubbed up pretty much everyone who is not hard left up the wrong way.

[bitchstewie]

Ayahuasca said:

Is any attack on a well known homosexual homophobic by definition?

I don’t know much about this particular attack, but note that OJ has appeared in the ‘people you wouldn’t get tired of punching in the face’ thread - is that homophobic too?

I note that my joke about OJ being beaten up has been removed as it broke forum rules. Fair enough, but the same joke has appeared on PH before not in connection to OJ and has not been removed.

I don't think it's homophobic by definition unless the attack is because he's gay.

The court ruled it was one of the motivations.

Ditto whatever comments are on that thread.

"I wouldn't get tired of punching Owen Jones in the face because he's annoying" isn't the same as "I wouldn't get tired of punching Owen Jones in the face because he's annoying and gay".

It seems pretty straightforward.

[Gareth79]

From the evidence it seems quite likely he was attacked because of his political views. The articles don't state the reasoning for the judge to decide that his sexuality was also a motive. I think it was a far decision that somebody who a) knew his face well enough to know his name in a pub when drunk, b) has previous convictions for Chelsea football violence, and c) has a collection of far-right memorabilia and birthday cards with symbols drawn, is unlikely to not be aware of his sexuality and LGBT views.

[Escapegoat]

Getragdogleg said:

How do you know what he may have been mouthing off about? They could have been arguing about anything.

You jumped to the conclusion that he was saying unpalatable things about fascism etc because it supports your narrative and what you want to have happened.

Dear boy - have another look. I put "etc" in. Why? Because it doesn't matter AT ALL what Jones was talking about.

[Escapegoat]

garyhun said:

Escapegoat said:

cb31 said:

some good will come out of this on both sides, the attacker will be taken off the streets and Owen Jones will probably not shoot his mouth off to idiots without thinking of the possible results.

And there you have it: simple cause and effect.

The lesson, according to our dear friend cb31, is that we should not say unpalatable things out loud about fascism, homophobia, etc.

I’m pretty sure that the lesson is if you act like a knob then expect there to be consequences.

Yes, that's exactly what I was pointing out: you and cb31 are on the same page. It's the same page where 'short skirts', 'drinking' and 'consequences' are also used in a single sentence.

[otolith]

gizlaroc said:

Have you not seen him in the media over the last 5 years?

He has rubbed up pretty much everyone who is not hard left up the wrong way.

You mean when he is invited to media events in order to talk about his politics?

[Ayahuasca]

bhstewie said:

Ayahuasca said:

Is any attack on a well known homosexual homophobic by definition?

I don’t know much about this particular attack, but note that OJ has appeared in the ‘people you wouldn’t get tired of punching in the face’ thread - is that homophobic too?

I note that my joke about OJ being beaten up has been removed as it broke forum rules. Fair enough, but the same joke has appeared on PH before not in connection to OJ and has not been removed.

I don't think it's homophobic by definition unless the attack is because he's gay.

The court ruled it was one of the motivations.

Ditto whatever comments are on that thread.

"I wouldn't get tired of punching Owen Jones in the face because he's annoying" isn't the same as "I wouldn't get tired of punching Owen Jones in the face because he's annoying and gay".

It seems pretty straightforward.

Agreed, but OJ seems to regard any attack as being homophobic eg:

[gizlaroc]

otolith said:

gizlaroc said:

Have you not seen him in the media over the last 5 years?

He has rubbed up pretty much everyone who is not hard left up the wrong way.

You mean when he is invited to media events in order to talk about his politics?

That's a "no" then.

[otolith]

gizlaroc said:

otolith said:

gizlaroc said:

Have you not seen him in the media over the last 5 years?

He has rubbed up pretty much everyone who is not hard left up the wrong way.

You mean when he is invited to media events in order to talk about his politics?

That's a "no" then.

Why do you think that what he does when he’s being paid to gob off represents how he behaves when he goes for a pint?

[Thorodin]

The preconceived opinions of commentators are well founded. Using a deliberately high profile role in public support of homosexual rights he encourages that exposure to further attention on himself for what he sees as political gain. He then is usually the first to claim homophobia as a contributing cause of attacks against him. He revels in it and sees it as helping his political cause, confirming his opinion of himself. A thoroughly unpleasant individual, it's not surprising he attracts violence. It's difficult to see how he expects to advance the interests of the homosexual lobby by continually drawing criticism.

Edited by Thorodin on Saturday 18th January 00:06