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[FiF]

RYH64E said:

turbobloke said:

Short-term it could be worse. Then the agility could get going, where it exists.

Where agility exists is with the city folk and business people, who largely voted Remain. Where it doesn't exist is in the mass of Leave voters, the old, the disenfranchised and the stupid, who voted for this mess and now expect others to work hard to get them out of the st.

You're a wasted talent, you could be writing for the Guardian with that one eyed twaddle. Plenty of people who do positive business have voted leave, and intend to do their bit. You said you weren't whining, okay, I'll believe you, 17 million others might not.

[walm]

sidicks said:

So negligible net change and entirely in line with how equities have moved in the past and will continue to do so in the future?

Have equities tanked like this is the past?
Yes, of course.

Is it negligible? No. Not really.
Don't forget that a significant part of the drop YTD is owing to Brexit risk too.

The real question is the move from here.
Markets try to anticipate the future.
And to a certain extent will be pricing in UK recession and EU break-up.
However, if those two events DO eventually occur then the markets will inevitably fall further.

None of these issues would have been issues if we voted to remain.
I think that is the point.

None of this should really be surprising anyone though.

[youngsyr]

GBP is currently down by between 2% and 3% against even Friday's close on every major currency in the world.

It's down by 11% against the USD pre-result close on Thursday - lowest it's been in over 30 years, during which time we've had several wars and a couple of financial meltdowns.

Edited by youngsyr on Monday 27th June 10:42

[Sway]

walm said:

sidicks said:

Tonsko said:

I was reminded by a Punjabi friend, that whether intentional or not, the Leave vote was perceived by small minded people as a vote to get rid of non-whites. In the few days since, her family has suffered verbal abuse to that tune, and been refused service in a shop. So that is another legacy, that's put us back 30 years.

There are small-minded people on both sides - not sure what your point is.

The point is that this vote has given small minded racists legitimacy, in their own eyes.
Clearly they feel it is now far more acceptable to act on their thoughts.
Before the vote, it wasn't as acceptable, because they thought they were in the minority.

At one point, those people were a majority. Then they weren't, and gradually the vast majority of that minority realised it. They may have still thought those thoughts, but several common terms were effectively removed from common parlance.

It's been three bloody days. Those still holding Victorian attitudes were there four years ago, as well as four days ago.

They may have become emboldened in the last few days, as you say believing they are part of a majority.

I have no doubt they'll very quickly learn once again that they don't.

[sidicks]

walm said:

Have equities tanked like this is the past?
Yes, of course.

Is it negligible? No. Not really.
Don't forget that a significant part of the drop YTD is owing to Brexit risk too.

The FTSE 100 (UKX) is broadly flat year-to-date and 10% up on mid-Feb values...

[Puggit]

Can an economist translate?

[youngsyr]

sidicks said:

walm said:

Have equities tanked like this is the past?
Yes, of course.

Is it negligible? No. Not really.
Don't forget that a significant part of the drop YTD is owing to Brexit risk too.

The FTSE 100 (UKX) is broadly flat year-to-date and 10% up on mid-Feb values...

"Roughly flat", is that the same as down nearly 6% on the start of the year and down 10% on a year ago?

(Chart does not show latest drop down to the current 6,060 level).



And it's up on "mid-Feb" - funny that you pick the historic low caused by the unexpected announcement of the Brexit referendum vote!

Edited by youngsyr on Monday 27th June 11:03

[youngsyr]

Puggit said:

Can an economist translate?

FT said:

Economists argue that low yields reflect investor belief that the Bank of England will be forced to keep interest rates low or cut them lower given the country’s weak economic prospects – bad news for pension funds and insurance companies that rely on the securities to meet future liabiltiies and are struggling to deal with lower returns.

Also screws anyone looking to retire and buy an annuity anytime soon.

[Stig]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c02fe256-3aaf-11e6-8716-...

Money to be made either way.

[walm]

sidicks said:

walm said:

Have equities tanked like this is the past?
Yes, of course.

Is it negligible? No. Not really.
Don't forget that a significant part of the drop YTD is owing to Brexit risk too.

The FTSE 100 (UKX) is broadly flat year-to-date and 10% up on mid-Feb values...

Yes, those 100 companies have fairly significant non-GBP earnings.
Sadly most people don't have all their eggs in that particular basket.
Good for them if they do!

[Sam All]

youngsyr said:

GBP is currently down by between 2% and 3% against even Friday's close on every major currency in the world.

It's down by 11% against the USD pre-result close on Thursday - lowest it's been in over 30 years, during which time we've had several wars and a couple of financial meltdowns.

Edited by youngsyr on Monday 27th June 10:42

& against the Euro?

[youngsyr]

Sam All said:

youngsyr said:

GBP is currently down by between 2% and 3% against even Friday's close on every major currency in the world.

It's down by 11% against the USD pre-result close on Thursday - lowest it's been in over 30 years, during which time we've had several wars and a couple of financial meltdowns.

Edited by youngsyr on Monday 27th June 10:42

& against the Euro?

http://bfy.tw/6TAa

[vonuber]

FiF said:

You're a wasted talent, you could be writing for the Guardian with that one eyed twaddle. Plenty of people who do positive business have voted leave, and intend to do their bit. You said you weren't whining, okay, I'll believe you, 17 million others might not.

Remain voters were overwhelmingly more likely to be educated and young, i.e. the very people who not only are net contributors but also the same people who are going to have to pull us out of this fk up.

And you wonder why people are angry.

[Puggit]

walm said:

sidicks said:

walm said:

Have equities tanked like this is the past?
Yes, of course.

Is it negligible? No. Not really.
Don't forget that a significant part of the drop YTD is owing to Brexit risk too.

The FTSE 100 (UKX) is broadly flat year-to-date and 10% up on mid-Feb values...

Yes, those 100 companies have fairly significant non-GBP earnings.
Sadly most people don't have all their eggs in that particular basket.
Good for them if they do!

I believe the FTSE250 is the better barometer - down 4% on the day, while the FTSE100 is only down 1%. The FTSE250 is built up of more UK-centric businesses.

[turbobloke]

mattmurdock said:

turbobloke said:

Because they're looking at it with a longer view than you?

Anyone would think ERM exit ended the world, then the GFC ended it again because it hadn't really ended. Both events had uncertainty and market turbulence initially. For those wondering where the sunshine went, it'll dawn on you eventually.

I'm looking at the longer view, the longer view where global organisations still influence our laws, where we are still a net contributor to the EU and still have free movement of labour - but to get to that, we have gone through a recession and general market turmoil across the globe.

Not yet, possibly we will have, but you're looking only on the downside and not really at the longer-term beyond a possible dip in spite of your claim.

mattmurdock said:

Where I am struggling is how the leavers actually thought this would go?

Eventually, outside the EU and with numerous related opportinities to do better outside the straitjacket and loss of funds.

The rest of your post is also, with respect, purely a downside view. We must take into account all possibilities and in a cost-benefit analysis around any decision, the potential benefits need to be placed alongside the potential costs, and this is a give-away as you're posting only or mainly the downside of potential disbenefits. It's like listening to Remain pre-referendum.

After the referendum it won't all happen at once, very far from it, so judgements at this stage are way too premature.

[Murph7355]

vonuber said:

Remain voters were overwhelmingly more likely to be educated and young, i.e. the very people who not only are net contributors but also the same people who are going to have to pull us out of this fk up.

And you wonder why people are angry.

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

Read what you want into them - the Leave campaign did not have a monopoly on idiots, and dismissing the views of 17m people this way doesn't hold those with that view up as shining examples of what it means to be "educated" (or young, though they can be forgiven. We've all been there).

For better or for worse you live in a democracy where everyone gets a say, irrespective of their supposed levels of intellect. You might start using some of the latter to accept this

[FiF]

vonuber said:

FiF said:

You're a wasted talent, you could be writing for the Guardian with that one eyed twaddle. Plenty of people who do positive business have voted leave, and intend to do their bit. You said you weren't whining, okay, I'll believe you, 17 million others might not.

Remain voters were overwhelmingly more likely to be educated and young, i.e. the very people who not only are net contributors but also the same people who are going to have to pull us out of this fk up.

And you wonder why people are angry.

You too, get yourself off to the Guardian with your broad brush one eyed attitude. Angry because you lost, yet continue to talk the place down after a whole weekend to let out your big baby whining.

[vonuber]

I'm not disputing their right to vote am I?

[vonuber]

FiF said:

You too, get yourself off to the Guardian with your broad brush one eyed attitude. Angry because you lost, yet continue to talk the place down after a whole weekend to let out your big baby whining.

Lost? We've all lost you muppet. The fact that you dismiss real fears as 'whining' says a lot.

[Sam All]

FiF said:

vonuber said:

FiF said:

You're a wasted talent, you could be writing for the Guardian with that one eyed twaddle. Plenty of people who do positive business have voted leave, and intend to do their bit. You said you weren't whining, okay, I'll believe you, 17 million others might not.

Remain voters were overwhelmingly more likely to be educated and young, i.e. the very people who not only are net contributors but also the same people who are going to have to pull us out of this fk up.

And you wonder why people are angry.

You too, get yourself off to the Guardian with your broad brush one eyed attitude. Angry because you lost, yet continue to talk the place down after a whole weekend to let out your big baby whining.

Vonuber, What's with the educated bit?