2nd Referendum please - I don't like how that one panned out
Discussion
saaby93 said:
Maybe the good thing about democracy is that youre allowed to have another vote if you want.
A second vote could be more decisive, work out the same, or show the opposite
Is there more info around to justify a second vote?
This is what I am thinking.A second vote could be more decisive, work out the same, or show the opposite
Is there more info around to justify a second vote?
Should democracy be just a single snap-shot in time of public opinion? Or could it be something that can take in to account events after an initial opinion? Could it be seen as being more democratic to allow the public to confirm a referendum or overrule it on a second vote?
There is definitely more info around now after the event. The main one being where is the drawn out organised plan for the reprocussions of brexit? Why did the markets/businesses not plan for such a result? Why are the wider world markets in shock about the result - it was always going to go one way or the other, so why the shock reactions?
okgo said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
Well we are still here and it isn't looking too awful just yet. The threats from the EU diehards are subsiding and Corbyn is still Corbyn all is good
Profit warnings left right and center this morning - looking pretty bad to me on day 2?This may be corrected but did Burberry not report a ~10% increase in pre-tax profit last year after issuing a profit warning due to China?
InfiniteVoltage said:
saaby93 said:
Maybe the good thing about democracy is that youre allowed to have another vote if you want.
A second vote could be more decisive, work out the same, or show the opposite
Is there more info around to justify a second vote?
This is what I am thinking.A second vote could be more decisive, work out the same, or show the opposite
Is there more info around to justify a second vote?
Should democracy be just a single snap-shot in time of public opinion? Or could it be something that can take in to account events after an initial opinion? Could it be seen as being more democratic to allow the public to confirm a referendum or overrule it on a second vote?
There is definitely more info around now after the event. The main one being where is the drawn out organised plan for the reprocussions of brexit?
saaby93 said:
Maybe the good thing about democracy is that youre allowed to have another vote if you want.
A second vote could be more decisive, work out the same, or show the opposite
Is there more info around to justify a second vote?
Nah. To be decisive you need at least 17 votes on average. It's a well known fact. All statisticians agree. Well, the one who was polled did.A second vote could be more decisive, work out the same, or show the opposite
Is there more info around to justify a second vote?
Why the flying feck would a second vote be more "decisive"? And if two is more decisive, why not three?
Everyone knew what was at stake. Those showing buyer's remorse should man up and pay more attention next time. Those bleating about not getting what they wanted should STFU. It's over. Done. Unless there was some voting irregularity (and apart from the vote being extended by 48hrs and young people not setting their alarm clocks I don't believe there was) then there is absolutely no reason to put us all through that experience again.
Murph7355 said:
saaby93 said:
Maybe the good thing about democracy is that youre allowed to have another vote if you want.
A second vote could be more decisive, work out the same, or show the opposite
Is there more info around to justify a second vote?
Nah. To be decisive you need at least 17 votes on average. It's a well known fact. All statisticians agree. Well, the one who was polled did.A second vote could be more decisive, work out the same, or show the opposite
Is there more info around to justify a second vote?
Why the flying feck would a second vote be more "decisive"? And if two is more decisive, why not three?
Everyone knew what was at stake. Those showing buyer's remorse should man up and pay more attention next time. Those bleating about not getting what they wanted should STFU. It's over. Done. Unless there was some voting irregularity (and apart from the vote being extended by 48hrs and young people not setting their alarm clocks I don't believe there was) then there is absolutely no reason to put us all through that experience again.
saaby93 said:
Maybe the good thing about democracy is that youre allowed to have another vote if you want.
A second vote could be more decisive, work out the same, or show the opposite
Is there more info around to justify a second vote?
second vote would be OK when Britain finally gets out of EU after all negotiations (which could last several years) and if public polls show there is a will to reenter EU A second vote could be more decisive, work out the same, or show the opposite
Is there more info around to justify a second vote?
although EU might not like the idea then
InfiniteVoltage said:
There is definitely more info around now after the event. The main one being where is the drawn out organised plan for the reprocussions of brexit? Why did the markets/businesses not plan for such a result? Why are the wider world markets in shock about the result - it was always going to go one way or the other, so why the shock reactions?
They did generally plan for it. That's why you see lots of info today about future profits coming out now - they have previously looked at different scenarios and the non-EU one is now released since it seems to be the future.The market thought that the UK would stay, thus it priced companies at a certain level. Now that the change happened it sees it was wrong, and that the risk is much higher. Therefore people have to react very quickly. Even if you don't believe things will be bad you have to react since everyone else is, so it creates the huge drop. If it had been expected the UK would leave previously then the pricing for the new future would have been more gradual and less of a shock. It was the way it happened that lead to such big drops.
Please sign this new petition:
We the undersigned demand a re-run of the 1997 UK general election. It is quite clear that had the electorate been fully informed of the consequences of their vote they would have voted differently. Fact.
In particular: illegal invasions in the Middle East; the consequent propaganda gift to Jihadi groups; the increase in public spending so far ahead of tax receipts that nearly 20 years later we are still trying to balance the annual deficit let alone reduce the accumulated debt; and joining the euro.
To be fair the 'join the euro' thing worked out well despite the BBC, Guardian, FT, Economist, investment banks, and eleventy billion academics all saying that not joining was a disaster that would isolate the UK from Europe and leave the UK economy in the dust as a glorious united Europe salied away from us and all the jobs worth having moved to Frankfurt.
This petition reluctantly admits that perhaps a bunch of illiterate northern proles working in t' mills to raise their whippets on a diet of gruel might sometimes have a valid opinion.
We the undersigned demand a re-run of the 1997 UK general election. It is quite clear that had the electorate been fully informed of the consequences of their vote they would have voted differently. Fact.
In particular: illegal invasions in the Middle East; the consequent propaganda gift to Jihadi groups; the increase in public spending so far ahead of tax receipts that nearly 20 years later we are still trying to balance the annual deficit let alone reduce the accumulated debt; and joining the euro.
To be fair the 'join the euro' thing worked out well despite the BBC, Guardian, FT, Economist, investment banks, and eleventy billion academics all saying that not joining was a disaster that would isolate the UK from Europe and leave the UK economy in the dust as a glorious united Europe salied away from us and all the jobs worth having moved to Frankfurt.
This petition reluctantly admits that perhaps a bunch of illiterate northern proles working in t' mills to raise their whippets on a diet of gruel might sometimes have a valid opinion.
Newc said:
Please sign this new petition:
We the undersigned demand a re-run of the 1997 UK general election. It is quite clear that had the electorate been fully informed of the consequences of their vote they would have voted differently. Fact.
In particular: illegal invasions in the Middle East; the consequent propaganda gift to Jihadi groups; the increase in public spending so far ahead of tax receipts that nearly 20 years later we are still trying to balance the annual deficit let alone reduce the accumulated debt; and joining the euro.
To be fair the 'join the euro' thing worked out well despite the BBC, Guardian, FT, Economist, investment banks, and eleventy billion academics all saying that not joining was a disaster that would isolate the UK from Europe and leave the UK economy in the dust as a glorious united Europe salied away from us and all the jobs worth having moved to Frankfurt.
This petition reluctantly admits that perhaps a bunch of illiterate northern proles working in t' mills to raise their whippets on a diet of gruel might sometimes have a valid opinion.
We the undersigned demand a re-run of the 1997 UK general election. It is quite clear that had the electorate been fully informed of the consequences of their vote they would have voted differently. Fact.
In particular: illegal invasions in the Middle East; the consequent propaganda gift to Jihadi groups; the increase in public spending so far ahead of tax receipts that nearly 20 years later we are still trying to balance the annual deficit let alone reduce the accumulated debt; and joining the euro.
To be fair the 'join the euro' thing worked out well despite the BBC, Guardian, FT, Economist, investment banks, and eleventy billion academics all saying that not joining was a disaster that would isolate the UK from Europe and leave the UK economy in the dust as a glorious united Europe salied away from us and all the jobs worth having moved to Frankfurt.
This petition reluctantly admits that perhaps a bunch of illiterate northern proles working in t' mills to raise their whippets on a diet of gruel might sometimes have a valid opinion.
Edited to add - can we have a rerun of the Battle of Hastings? I feel the French have had undue influence on the country ever since.
Murph7355 said:
Edited to add - can we have a rerun of the Battle of Hastings? I feel the French have had undue influence on the country ever since.
Edited by RizzoTheRat on Monday 27th June 12:18
Playing devils advocate: What if we don't get a good Trade deal from the EU? What if they say that in order to get what WE might consider a fair/good deal then Open Borders to the UK must remain and there would have to be a significant contribution to EU coffers from the UK? Yes we'd be back in 'control' of our own destiny from a democratic point of view but would these changed circumstances be justification for a 2nd referendum?
speedy_thrills said:
Why not best of 3? Or even a perpetual neverendum.
At this rate we'll end up with two countries. One composed of Scotland, Northern Ireland and London/SE in the EU and the rest 'going it alone.'
That is the usual way the EU operates, it tries to make the people vote again, and again, and again, until it gets the answer `IT' wants. At this rate we'll end up with two countries. One composed of Scotland, Northern Ireland and London/SE in the EU and the rest 'going it alone.'
lionelf said:
Playing devils advocate: What if we don't get a good Trade deal from the EU? What if they say that in order to get what WE might consider a fair/good deal then Open Borders to the UK must remain and there would have to be a significant contribution to EU coffers from the UK? Yes we'd be back in 'control' of our own destiny from a democratic point of view but would these changed circumstances be justification for a 2nd referendum?
I believe they will blink in that scenario. They already have a customs union with Turkey meaning free trade in goods without free movement, so it can be done. Some fairly liberal, reciprocal system of work and residency permits could be worked out, it's not rocket science. They would be utterly insane to erect tariff barriers which no-one really wants if offered this obviously sensible choice, and we would be utterly mad to continue with unfettered free movement of EU citizens given the result of last week's poll.
gumshoe said:
eharding said:
What sacrifices are you personally willing to make for the Brexit cause? Your current job, your pension?
I know someone who's looking likely to lose about £4m-6m off the value of their business once we leave the EU....He voted out, knowingly (had an impact assessment done). Why? Because democracy is more important.
People should now be realising that those supporting remain (and the EU) are so indoctrinated that they do not believe in democracy, which is exactly the reason many people wanted to leave. They are in fact, dangerous minded people.
Whilst remainers say 'think of the children', that was the only thing on my mind when I put my cross in the leave box.
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