Labour self-destruction
Discussion
handpaper said:
Unfortunately he campaigned (in a lukewarm fashion) for Remain. Had he gone with his long-held convictions, he'd now be a lot more popular, with Labour voters and the electorate as a whole. Indeed, if he had campaigned for Leave he might be a threat to the Tories in any upcoming GE.
I'm not sure I agree. There's lots of people who dislike the EU who voted to stay, and a lot of people who voted out who might be feeling a bit remorseful if their pension/whatever takes a hit. He might not win the votes of hardline outers, but he's pretty close to the centre on the EU.He'd be going up against a free unicorn and Jam Tomorrow Tory leader with a £350M pledge hanging around his neck.
I think Corbyns biggest problem has been that he's not very inspiring and answers questions in too many sentences. His views on nukes, too.
Corbyn missed his moment. He could have really connected with core Labour voters but he chose his New Labour neighbours who forgot to invite him to their dinner parties.
He could still save it if he really got behind some positive vision of a social democratic Britain outside the EU but, and this is where it really tells, he doesn't have the wit to do this. He has built his leadership on blacking Camerons eye and a force he doesn't understand has stolen his thunder by giving Cameron a lot worse than a black eye.
I am a libertarian-conservative and I will almost certainly never vote Labour but as things stand a decent social democratic party is a viable and desirable addition to a national debate about the future of this country. Corbyn could still be the man to do it but not if his heart is still in the EU.
He could still save it if he really got behind some positive vision of a social democratic Britain outside the EU but, and this is where it really tells, he doesn't have the wit to do this. He has built his leadership on blacking Camerons eye and a force he doesn't understand has stolen his thunder by giving Cameron a lot worse than a black eye.
I am a libertarian-conservative and I will almost certainly never vote Labour but as things stand a decent social democratic party is a viable and desirable addition to a national debate about the future of this country. Corbyn could still be the man to do it but not if his heart is still in the EU.
VolvoT5 said:
This coup is just crazy, they don't even have a credible candidate lined up... everyone that has resigned so far as gone out of their way to say they don't want to stand for leader themselves. Wtf? So they just want to destabilise the party with no plan. And how exactly do they intend to get the member base to vote for an alternative if they don't have a good option lined up.
Indeed, and whatever Labour balloon they interviewed on the DP this morning admitted it, and then stuttered and in the same breath half-heartedly motioned how they'd need to change the minds of the membership...they didn't do it last time, not sure what has happened in ten months. 
Halb said:
VolvoT5 said:
This coup is just crazy, they don't even have a credible candidate lined up... everyone that has resigned so far as gone out of their way to say they don't want to stand for leader themselves. Wtf? So they just want to destabilise the party with no plan. And how exactly do they intend to get the member base to vote for an alternative if they don't have a good option lined up.
Indeed, and whatever Labour balloon they interviewed on the DP this morning admitted it, and then stuttered and in the same breath half-heartedly motioned how they'd need to change the minds of the membership...they didn't do it last time, not sure what has happened in ten months. Mr GrimNasty said:
David Miliband returns from the wilderness?
He'd be wecomed by the electorate perhaps. But how could he win the leadership if he couldn't beat his brother the last time? The party members seem to love Corbyn and hate Blairites.I guess when Corbyn won he ran against a whole panel of dull candidates who all fought to the end for their 11% of the vote. Maybe in an either/or battle a blairite could win.
Mr GrimNasty said:
David Miliband returns from the wilderness?
I don't understand the love for David Miliband.... he is Blair reheated, yesterday's news. The party needs to move on, personally I think a female voice might help. I was impressed with Gisela Stuart during the campaign as she was sensible, measured and got her message across clearly. However as a leaver I doubt she would get a look in because the PLP & membership is so pro EU.
There are other options who are on the left or centre left but more electable than Corbyn. Seema malhotra or Lisa Nandy for example.
ralphrj said:
Rumour is that Corbyn is holding on until the publication of the Chilcot Inquiry into the Iraq War (due on 6th July) so he can use his position to call for Tony Blair to be prosecuted for war crimes. After that he will go.
Let me get my tin foil hat about why he's being pushed out now 
AJS- said:
I am a libertarian-conservative and I will almost certainly never vote Labour but as things stand a decent social democratic party is a viable and desirable addition to a national debate about the future of this country. Corbyn could still be the man to do it but not if his heart is still in the EU.
My biggest regret is that we don't have a centrist option that could fight both Labour and Tories whilst they are shooting themselves in the foot. Whilst I didn't vote for exit and saw all the short-term consequences coming, I do see this as a great opportunity to shake up UK politics. I'd ideally like that to be based on reform of the electoral system but suspect the Establishment, even in a power vacuum won't allow that to happen.When the old SDP split from old Labour we had an opportunity but that didn't make headway and became takeover fodder for the Liberals. They then shot themselves in the foot in government and are in no place to challenge now. That said, the most credible and straight talking leader I've seen in the last 10 years was Nick Clegg, he just got outmanouvered by CMD and his gang. Here were his predictions the day before the referendum:
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/will-wake-vote...
Edited by Speed 3 on Sunday 26th June 20:51
Murph7355 said:
Interesting times for politics in this country.
I think the UK public may have had a wizard of oz moment, I know I have.The question is where from here? More pointless and more decisive democracy? A dictator? A commission style centralised board? A return to monarchy? Anyone know?
FredClogs said:
The question is where from here? More pointless and more decisive democracy? A dictator? A commission style centralised board? A return to monarchy? Anyone know?
Democracy is better than the alternatives. I suspect I wasn't alone in voting for it this time.My preference is to copy Switzerland; they seem to do okay. Not their chocolate though. That always hurts the roof of my mouth.
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