Will JC Juncker get the chop?

[230TE]

alfie2244 said:

Don't know about that but have you seen a photo of Guy Verhofstat?

Christ. David Mellor didn't just have the one affair, did he?

[Pesty]

dandarez said:

Who cares? Not our problem anymore.

He (and some of the others in that clique) are the main reason I 'outed'.

Unfortunately it is. He wants to punish us like the progressive friendly European that he is.

[Sam All]

alfie2244 said:

Don't know about that but have you seen a photo of Guy Verhofstat?

Belgians, Brussels - all that is wrong with Europe.

[johnxjsc1985]

Pesty said:

Unfortunately it is. He wants to punish us like the progressive friendly European that he is.

On Friday maybe they could reflect on how this Country has supported democracy in Europe by sending young men to their death not once but twice. I do not like these people giving this Country any lessons in how to be a good European.

[jjlynn27]

Puggit said:

Jockman said:

On EU monetary policy
"I'm ready to be insulted as being insufficiently democratic, but I want to be serious ... I am for secret, dark debates"

And yet these dark debates are off the table for Brexit. The UK cannot pull the trigger on Article 50 until it knows the skeleton of an exit deal.

He has very cleverly turned the loaded gun back at us.

I don't think that anyone disagrees on Junker. I do think that once Art50 is invoked UK will be in weak negotiating position, as the clock starts ticking. I did expect them to say no formal negotiation before Art.50, but did expect backroom 'negotiations' to start straight away.

[anonymous-user]

Jockman said:

He said we were not a nation of quitters.

And the nation said "fk you" back to him.

Jockman said:

Then quit.

And he said "fk you" back to the nation (all right, to Boris really).

There is a certain symmetry to those events.

[whoami]

jjlynn27 said:

Puggit said:

Jockman said:

On EU monetary policy
"I'm ready to be insulted as being insufficiently democratic, but I want to be serious ... I am for secret, dark debates"

And yet these dark debates are off the table for Brexit. The UK cannot pull the trigger on Article 50 until it knows the skeleton of an exit deal.

He has very cleverly turned the loaded gun back at us.

I don't think that anyone disagrees on Junker. I do think that once Art50 is invoked UK will be in weak negotiating position, as the clock starts ticking. I did expect them to say no formal negotiation before Art.50, but did expect backroom 'negotiations' to start straight away.

By the time Article 50 is invoked, the main deals will already have been done.

[ATG]

Jockman said:

On EU monetary policy
"I'm ready to be insulted as being insufficiently democratic, but I want to be serious ... I am for secret, dark debates"

Classic Juncker. Open mouth and insert foot.

Let's be clear: what he said above was ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

Discussions about monetary policy action is always conducted in total secrecy. Policy announcements are made through very carefully managed press conference and press releases. And if you're lucky this is eventually followed up with a release of some meeting notes that explain how and why the decisions were made. If you don't conduct monetary policy that way the financial markets will slaughter you. The Bank of England operates that way, so does the Fed, the ECB and every other central bank. Same goes for announcing defaults and bailouts.

But look at the WAY he said it. He created a soundbite that could be used to beat him up and undermine confidence in the democratic legitimacy of the EU, even though what he was describing is not anti-democratic and is entirely sensible. That is complete political incompetence. It doesn't just damage him; it clearly does real harm to the EU too.

[Esseesse]

With these feet said:

Puggit said:

thinkofaname said:

I think Farage was right, in a way, when he talked about a 52-48 result meaning that the "war" would not be over, except of course he was talking about 52-48 in favour of Remain.

Absolutely - I hate the EU, but I accept that 52% of the vote is not enough for such a seismic change.

So how much should it be? 5M? 10M? keep going until its 100%? 1.2M is a significant number, even with spoiled votes etc leave won, the turnout was the biggest for a long time.

I think (IIRC) the number of votes for leave is the biggest mandate in any UK vote ever.

[Dr Jekyll]

ATG said:

Jockman said:

On EU monetary policy
"I'm ready to be insulted as being insufficiently democratic, but I want to be serious ... I am for secret, dark debates"

Classic Juncker. Open mouth and insert foot.

Let's be clear: what he said above was ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

Discussions about monetary policy action is always conducted in total secrecy.

But this is precisely the point. The EU is no longer the EEC, not just drawing up financial agreements which might make an attitude of 'let's not bother the public with the details' might be defensible. It's turning into a superstate, it claims to be democratic. The bank of England policy committee are not responsible for handling transfers of sovereignty.

[jjlynn27]

whoami said:

jjlynn27 said:

Puggit said:

Jockman said:

On EU monetary policy
"I'm ready to be insulted as being insufficiently democratic, but I want to be serious ... I am for secret, dark debates"

And yet these dark debates are off the table for Brexit. The UK cannot pull the trigger on Article 50 until it knows the skeleton of an exit deal.

He has very cleverly turned the loaded gun back at us.

I don't think that anyone disagrees on Junker. I do think that once Art50 is invoked UK will be in weak negotiating position, as the clock starts ticking. I did expect them to say no formal negotiation before Art.50, but did expect backroom 'negotiations' to start straight away.

By the time Article 50 is invoked, the main deals will already have been done.

I really doubt that (I wish it was true). As before, think about it, the EU is in much stronger position once Art.50 clock starts ticking. And the have no desire to even hint at anything. Why would they put themselves in anything but strongest negotiating position possible.

[Pesty]

johnxjsc1985 said:

On Friday maybe they could reflect on how this Country has supported democracy in Europe by sending young men to their death not once but twice. I do not like these people giving this Country any lessons in how to be a good European.

Absolutely.

You think it's a coincidence we've been downgraded yet the forecast for growth in or out of the eu was the same?

All the globalists and tt like him don't like a fly in their ointment.

[ATG]

Dr Jekyll said:

ATG said:

Jockman said:

On EU monetary policy
"I'm ready to be insulted as being insufficiently democratic, but I want to be serious ... I am for secret, dark debates"

Classic Juncker. Open mouth and insert foot.

Let's be clear: what he said above was ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

Discussions about monetary policy action is always conducted in total secrecy.

But this is precisely the point. The EU is no longer the EEC, not just drawing up financial agreements which might make an attitude of 'let's not bother the public with the details' might be defensible. It's turning into a superstate, it claims to be democratic. The bank of England policy committee are not responsible for handling transfers of sovereignty.

What point are you making? Juncker was specifically talking about secrecy when discussing monetary policy. He wasn't calling for secrecy in general, he wasn't saying the EU shouldn't be democratic.

[ATG]

Pesty said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

On Friday maybe they could reflect on how this Country has supported democracy in Europe by sending young men to their death not once but twice. I do not like these people giving this Country any lessons in how to be a good European.

Absolutely.

You think it's a coincidence we've been downgraded yet the forecast for growth in or out of the eu was the same?

All the globalists and tt like him don't like a fly in their ointment.

Tin foil time

[Dr Jekyll]

ATG said:

What point are you making? Juncker was specifically talking about secrecy when discussing monetary policy. He wasn't calling for secrecy in general, he wasn't saying the EU shouldn't be democratic.

You have to see it in the context of his other remarks.

'If (the French referendum) says 'Yes' we go on, if it's 'No' we continue'

'We know what to do, the problem is how to get re elected afterwards'.

'Of course there will be transfer of sovereignty. But would it be intelligent to draw the attention of the public to this fact?'

'When it becomes serious, you have to lie'.

[ATG]

Dr Jekyll said:

ATG said:

What point are you making? Juncker was specifically talking about secrecy when discussing monetary policy. He wasn't calling for secrecy in general, he wasn't saying the EU shouldn't be democratic.

You have to see it in the context of his other remarks.

'If (the French referendum) says 'Yes' we go on, if it's 'No' we continue'

'We know what to do, the problem is how to get re elected afterwards'.

'Of course there will be transfer of sovereignty. But would it be intelligent to draw the attention of the public to this fact?'

'When it becomes serious, you have to lie'.

You don't have to explain the context. I'm well aware of it. I've said the man should never have been appointed. His federalist instincts are out of touch and he is hopelessly error prone when he opens his mouth. He leaves a trail of sound bites behind him, like the ones you've listed, that give a cartoon like impression of him and, by association, the Commission and EU.

All of the quotes you give above have some degree of truth in them. All politicians wrestle with the irrationality of the public debate, the random outcome of referenda, having to wait for opportune moments when the public mood finally let's you take steps that obviously need to be taken.

To take one more example, pooling sovereignty in trade matters makes very good sense if it gives you more clout in trade negotiations. But if you're trying to sell that to the public who are already wary about "losing" sovereignty, do you bang on about sovereignty or do you bang on about what a good trade deal you'll collectively manage to get?

[anonymous-user]

I fking hope so. He is everything that is wrong with the EU mixed into one being.

[JMGS4]

johnxjsc1985 said:

On Friday maybe they could reflect on how this Country has supported democracy in Europe by sending young men to their death not once but twice. I do not like these people giving this Country any lessons in how to be a good European.

We have saved Europe 3 times in the last 200 years with a huge loss of life, Napoleonic, Kaiser Bills and Adolf Schikelgrubers wars... perhaps we've saved them from oppression for the 4th time now?

[jjlynn27]

Creepy

[Sparkyhd]

I agree with the FIFA / Blatter analogy.

Can someone clarify why it's stated that these EU officials are unelected? From what I've read (Wikipedia) there are elections. Juncker wasn't just planted there.