How do we think EU negotiations will go?
Discussion
Jockman said:
mx5nut said:
digimeistter said:
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
I keep hearing this from remoaners, I fail to see the logic. Please explain.So far, their Brexit leap isn't bringing the rewards they hoped.
They'll have another go with Corbyn when the current government falls apart.
After all, he can't be as bad as what they've got now, right?
(Replies to this will likely be an attempt to patronise Corbyn's voters - because they're all thick, right?)
5 months ago people had the choice to support a party which explicitly stated it would seek to reverse the result. They were wiped out at the polls.
As for people voting in self interest - yup, no issue with that.
Clegg messed with the kids heads in 2010. Corbyn did the same in 2017. Neither were particularly successful.
All these (apparently) right wing people who voted for ‘Brexit are suddenly going to vote for one of the most left wing parties we have seen in the last 30+ years!
sidicks said:
There is no logic to see!
All these (apparently) right wing people who voted for ‘Brexit are suddenly going to vote for one of the most left wing parties we have seen in the last 30+ years!
Agreed. Some seem to conjoin 2 opposing notions simply because they disagree with both of them.All these (apparently) right wing people who voted for ‘Brexit are suddenly going to vote for one of the most left wing parties we have seen in the last 30+ years!
mx5nut said:
digimeistter said:
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
I keep hearing this from remoaners, I fail to see the logic. Please explain.So far, their Brexit leap isn't bringing the rewards they hoped.
They'll have another go with Corbyn when the current government falls apart.
After all, he can't be as bad as what they've got now, right?
(Replies to this will likely be an attempt to patronise Corbyn's voters - because they're all thick, right?)
Like you said many people voted Brexit for change. If it's stopped they will still want change and the only option left to them would be Labour. Or maybe some sort of Ukip government.
The best way I see to prevent Corbyn getting into power is to try and make a success of Brexit.
Not-The-Messiah said:
So how does stopping Brexit prevent it?
Like you said many people voted Brexit for change. If it's stopped they will still want change and the only option left to them would be Labour. Or maybe some sort of Ukip government.
The best way I see to prevent Corbyn getting into power is to try and make a success of Brexit.
The best way to prevent Corbyn getting into power is simply not to vote for him. Like you said many people voted Brexit for change. If it's stopped they will still want change and the only option left to them would be Labour. Or maybe some sort of Ukip government.
The best way I see to prevent Corbyn getting into power is to try and make a success of Brexit.
The impression given from some is that they'd vote for him in a fit of pique because Brexit didn't go their way. Not really Brexit's fault that.
Or maybe they wouldn't in which case why do they assume everyone else would?
Brexit is less of an issue ref Corbyn than May's hapless leadership style is. That needs another thread (I think it even has one). However I don't see her being in charge by the next election... A graceful stand down in 2020...unless she secures the deal of all deals
Murph7355 said:
The best way to prevent Corbyn getting into power is simply not to vote for him.
The impression given from some is that they'd vote for him in a fit of pique because Brexit didn't go their way. Not really Brexit's fault that.
Or maybe they wouldn't in which case why do they assume everyone else would?
Brexit is less of an issue ref Corbyn than May's hapless leadership style is. That needs another thread (I think it even has one). However I don't see her being in charge by the next election... A graceful stand down in 2020...unless she secures the deal of all deals
Agreed. Surely, even the most upset voter who wanted to Remain in the EU wouldn't be crazy enough to vite for Corbyn as an act of spite ?The impression given from some is that they'd vote for him in a fit of pique because Brexit didn't go their way. Not really Brexit's fault that.
Or maybe they wouldn't in which case why do they assume everyone else would?
Brexit is less of an issue ref Corbyn than May's hapless leadership style is. That needs another thread (I think it even has one). However I don't see her being in charge by the next election... A graceful stand down in 2020...unless she secures the deal of all deals
At least, that's what I'm hoping - but there's a few on here who might not agree......
Murph7355 said:
The best way to prevent Corbyn getting into power is simply not to vote for him.
Please don't spoil this thread by posting sensible ideas, you'll confuse people 
Murph7355 said:
Brexit is less of an issue ref Corbyn than May's hapless leadership style is. That needs another thread (I think it even has one). However I don't see her being in charge by the next election... A graceful stand down in 2020...unless she secures the deal of all deals
I'm not so sure on that one although admittedly at the moment she looks weak. (but then again, look at Merkel). I reckon it all hinges on Brexit and whatever deal we end up with. If she looks to have stood up to the EU, leaves on time in 2019 and the country doesn't end up begging the IMF for loans then I could see her personal standing rising. Despite some posters on here, the general public aren't bothered about the economy as long as they're ok in their own lives and she'll be seen to have delivered on a pretty big promise.
But if we're not out in 2019 or the "transition phase" drags on past the next election, then both TM & the Conservatives are toast and Corbyn looks very likely.
The Brexit vote showed how Labour & Conservative voters (and UKIP) could unite for a common aim. At the next election the Labour voters will stick to Labour, UKIP voters will vote Labour because Corbyn will suddenly re-discover his Eurosceptic roots and they'll perceive the Conservatives to have betrayed them. And there'll be a percentage of Tory voters who also feel betrayed; they won't vote Labour but if they simply abstain then that's probably enough to swing it. Under those conditions I think they'd leave TM in place and elect a new leader afterwards.
Robertj21a said:
Agreed. Surely, even the most upset voter who wanted to Remain in the EU wouldn't be crazy enough to vite for Corbyn as an act of spite ?
At least, that's what I'm hoping - but there's a few on here who might not agree......
Crazy?At least, that's what I'm hoping - but there's a few on here who might not agree......
You do know there was a sizable number that voted Leave just because the Government wanted Remain, don't you?
Perhaps you could use your winners prizemoney to buy another child and if you have any left over perhaps a KFC party bucket to celebrate. ...do you get a discount? 
Jockman said:
Still failing to see the logic.
5 months ago people had the choice to support a party which explicitly stated it would seek to reverse the result. They were wiped out at the polls.
As for people voting in self interest - yup, no issue with that.
Clegg messed with the kids heads in 2010. Corbyn did the same in 2017. Neither were particularly successful.
The assumption this makes is the electorate makes binary choices on single issues when they simply don't & generally have far more sophistication in making electoral decisions than those reaching this conclusion ever take into account.5 months ago people had the choice to support a party which explicitly stated it would seek to reverse the result. They were wiped out at the polls.
As for people voting in self interest - yup, no issue with that.
Clegg messed with the kids heads in 2010. Corbyn did the same in 2017. Neither were particularly successful.
On the remoaner/Bracist point, what is being overlooked is the cloak of anonymity a forum affords people. It allows a far greater degree of latitude than nearly anyone would consider acceptable face to face & from there springs the rudeness & immaturity people like me never display...but the goon squad pensioner pals think is funny time & again & actually sends anyone packing with their ears ringing or even lands a punch. It doesn't.
Eddie Strohacker said:
Really? Hey guys, we won. 
I think you have a profound misunderstanding about what most of us concluded from that last, ridiculous effort to tangle the debate up in evaded questions and outright insults. You ought to be binned, but that's someone else's job - I'm not the gamekeeper, just one of the poachers.People can come here and express options, argue, disagree, debate, but deliberated derailing that is not on.
Digga said:
I think you have a profound misunderstanding about what most of us concluded from that last, ridiculous effort to tangle the debate up in evaded questions and outright insults. You ought to be binned, but that's someone else's job - I'm not the gamekeeper, just one of the poachers.
People can come here and express options, argue, disagree, debate, but deliberated derailing that is not on.
See above.People can come here and express options, argue, disagree, debate, but deliberated derailing that is not on.
Eddie Strohacker said:
Digga said:
I think you have a profound misunderstanding about what most of us concluded from that last, ridiculous effort to tangle the debate up in evaded questions and outright insults. You ought to be binned, but that's someone else's job - I'm not the gamekeeper, just one of the poachers.
People can come here and express options, argue, disagree, debate, but deliberated derailing that is not on.
See above.People can come here and express options, argue, disagree, debate, but deliberated derailing that is not on.
Eddie Strohacker said:
On the remoaner/Bracist point, what is being overlooked is the cloak of anonymity a forum affords people. It allows a far greater degree of latitude than nearly anyone would consider acceptable face to face & from there springs the rudeness & immaturity people like me never display...but the goon squad pensioner pals think is funny time & again & actually sends anyone packing with their ears ringing or even lands a punch. It doesn't.
Eddie Strohacker said:
The assumption this makes is the electorate makes binary choices on single issues when they simply don't & generally have far more sophistication in making electoral decisions than those reaching this conclusion ever take into account.
A good point but not a perfect one. It assumes the electorate as a homogeneous group of voters.Some will fit your depiction, others will not. This applies in all elections and referenda.
For those that do fit your profile they will then formulate a hierarchy of interests - some students for example may prioritise student debt at the top of their hierarchy and, say, a triple lock at the bottom. Can't blame them. Some Pensioners will have an opposing heirarchy, others will have an identical one to these students.
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