How do we think EU negotiations will go?
Discussion
For the last 50 years Politicians have cared about Europe. Political types and commentators have cared about Europe. The vast majority of people really haven't been that interested and continue to be not that interested.
It has never been a big factor in how people vote in General Elections and even last month it turns out it wasn't.
Even Brexit, which is a big issue for politicians and political types such as here is of limited interest directly to the vast majority of people. They are, quite sensibly, just getting on with their lives and really not following it that carefully.
It has never been a big factor in how people vote in General Elections and even last month it turns out it wasn't.
Even Brexit, which is a big issue for politicians and political types such as here is of limited interest directly to the vast majority of people. They are, quite sensibly, just getting on with their lives and really not following it that carefully.
Eddie Strohacker said:
Deptford Draylons said:
the one party who were clear on the EU and the desire to a reversal.
Their manifesto made no mention of reversing the referendum.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39946809
t show that is Labour. Deptford Draylons said:
No, just a second referendum. Shame the party stood behind people who wouldn't even vote to trigger article 50 in an effort to stop Brexit and stood at elections on doing this. I'm sure you'd like to present as the LibDems as being fair and simply offering a referendum on the final deal, but their record makes it quite clear on what they want and what they would do. I'd at least have some respect for remainers who voted LibDem, rather than those who voted for the st show that is Labour.
t show that is Labour. Eddie Strohacker said:
They gained four seats or a 50% increase in the country backing remain!
Y'know, one can use stats to misleadingly etc etc. We're going way off topic but it's probably enough to say that in general, people vote the way they do for complex & varied reasons, few believe the referendum is open to overturning although as Brexit unfolds, it's clear that public opinion is on the move & a referendum on the outcome of negotiations is very thinkable now but wasn't at the time of the GE & Farron was never popular leading a post Clegg damaged brand. So it's a canard to suggest if you're a remain supporter, you were somehow honour bound to vote LD at the election.
Explained in detail like four posts up, Scooby. To quote the other one eyed Sauron who dips in here from time to time, "Nothing is clear unless somebody wants to see something."Y'know, one can use stats to misleadingly etc etc. We're going way off topic but it's probably enough to say that in general, people vote the way they do for complex & varied reasons, few believe the referendum is open to overturning although as Brexit unfolds, it's clear that public opinion is on the move & a referendum on the outcome of negotiations is very thinkable now but wasn't at the time of the GE & Farron was never popular leading a post Clegg damaged brand. So it's a canard to suggest if you're a remain supporter, you were somehow honour bound to vote LD at the election.
What I'm saying, in the politest possible terms is your starting premise is b
ks, therefore on the basis it's been offered, your respect is not required.Great piece by Jeremy Warner in the Telegraph pointing out that the problem that Germany faces in bailing out the Southern Eurozone countries makes Brexit look like a walk in the park (wait until the average Joe in Germany wakes up to what's really going to happen to their savings....)
Another good one on May re-started the business consultation forum - Tesco, the Pru, BAE, JLR, Luke Johnson (Risk Capital), Nation Grid, Fintechs, IoD, CBI all represented.
Great news in terms or working out how to organise an orderly exit for a cross section of industries.
Although less that 50% of the UK population actually "understands business" according a survey carried out the CBI (R4 Today programme earlier) the companies do pay £205bn of tax. After all someone's got to pay for that new hosptial....
http://www.cbi.org.uk/businessvoice/latest/busines...
Another good one on May re-started the business consultation forum - Tesco, the Pru, BAE, JLR, Luke Johnson (Risk Capital), Nation Grid, Fintechs, IoD, CBI all represented.
Great news in terms or working out how to organise an orderly exit for a cross section of industries.
Although less that 50% of the UK population actually "understands business" according a survey carried out the CBI (R4 Today programme earlier) the companies do pay £205bn of tax. After all someone's got to pay for that new hosptial....
http://www.cbi.org.uk/businessvoice/latest/busines...
And another; KPMG survey has UK ranked as one of only two major nations rated as being capable of responding to "shock" financial instability and political uncertaintly.
Strong enterprise potential, strong government, entrepreneurship, strong technology, economic openness, strong financial sector and a renowned business culture.
I think I need a lie down. Totally failing to be grumpy today.
Strong enterprise potential, strong government, entrepreneurship, strong technology, economic openness, strong financial sector and a renowned business culture.
I think I need a lie down. Totally failing to be grumpy today.
Eddie Strohacker said:
Deptford Draylons said:
No, just a second referendum. Shame the party stood behind people who wouldn't even vote to trigger article 50 in an effort to stop Brexit and stood at elections on doing this. I'm sure you'd like to present as the LibDems as being fair and simply offering a referendum on the final deal, but their record makes it quite clear on what they want and what they would do. I'd at least have some respect for remainers who voted LibDem, rather than those who voted for the st show that is Labour.
t show that is Labour. Eddie Strohacker said:
They gained four seats or a 50% increase in the country backing remain!
Y'know, one can use stats to misleadingly etc etc. We're going way off topic but it's probably enough to say that in general, people vote the way they do for complex & varied reasons, few believe the referendum is open to overturning although as Brexit unfolds, it's clear that public opinion is on the move & a referendum on the outcome of negotiations is very thinkable now but wasn't at the time of the GE & Farron was never popular leading a post Clegg damaged brand. So it's a canard to suggest if you're a remain supporter, you were somehow honour bound to vote LD at the election.
Explained in detail like four posts up, Scooby. To quote the other one eyed Sauron who dips in here from time to time, "Nothing is clear unless somebody wants to see something."Y'know, one can use stats to misleadingly etc etc. We're going way off topic but it's probably enough to say that in general, people vote the way they do for complex & varied reasons, few believe the referendum is open to overturning although as Brexit unfolds, it's clear that public opinion is on the move & a referendum on the outcome of negotiations is very thinkable now but wasn't at the time of the GE & Farron was never popular leading a post Clegg damaged brand. So it's a canard to suggest if you're a remain supporter, you were somehow honour bound to vote LD at the election.
What I'm saying, in the politest possible terms is your starting premise is b
ks, therefore on the basis it's been offered, your respect is not required.So Brexit isn't that bad that anyone needs to turn out and vote for the one party with an aim to reverse the result, but all you Remainers voted for the calamitous Labour party. Every day a comedy day on PH.
Deptford Draylons said:
I thought your claim of a 50% rise in the country backing remain from 4 extra seats on a reduced vote share was you being amusing, but you are serious ?
So Brexit isn't that bad that anyone needs to turn out and vote for the one party with an aim to reverse the result, but all you Remainers voted for the calamitous Labour party. Every day a comedy day on PH.
I love your adorable flights of fancy, leaping from one illogical deduction to the next. You'll have me in a dress sing the Internationale by tea time at this rate.So Brexit isn't that bad that anyone needs to turn out and vote for the one party with an aim to reverse the result, but all you Remainers voted for the calamitous Labour party. Every day a comedy day on PH.
Eddie Strohacker said:
I'd be up for a PM with a pair of balls sacking BoJo, Fox & Human Pob, Gove the stabby then going on TV to explain why & calling the whole bullst off & fk the will of Sunderland or wherever. 
It's not "ft off & fk the will of Sunderland or wherever. k the will of Sunderland or wherever", it would be "fk the will of the majority of people in the uk". Do you not see anything wrong with that? Or that your sort of approach causes the most division and encourages the view that the 48% cannot be reconciled with... Were you spoilt as a child, as that's the way you come across.
Murph7355 said:
It's not "fk the will of Sunderland or wherever", it would be "fk the will of the majority of people in the uk". Do you not see anything wrong with that? Or that your sort of approach causes the most division and encourages the view that the 48% cannot be reconciled with...
Were you spoilt as a child, as that's the way you come across.
Can you take a joke? It looks like you can't take a joke. I even added a smiley to help you understand but still nothing got through. Sad!k the will of Sunderland or wherever", it would be "fk the will of the majority of people in the uk". Do you not see anything wrong with that? Or that your sort of approach causes the most division and encourages the view that the 48% cannot be reconciled with... Were you spoilt as a child, as that's the way you come across.
Eddie Strohacker said:
Murph7355 said:
It's not "fk the will of Sunderland or wherever", it would be "fk the will of the majority of people in the uk". Do you not see anything wrong with that? Or that your sort of approach causes the most division and encourages the view that the 48% cannot be reconciled with...
Were you spoilt as a child, as that's the way you come across.
Can you take a joke? It looks like you can't take a joke. I even added a smiley to help you understand but still nothing got through. Sad!k the will of Sunderland or wherever", it would be "fk the will of the majority of people in the uk". Do you not see anything wrong with that? Or that your sort of approach causes the most division and encourages the view that the 48% cannot be reconciled with... Were you spoilt as a child, as that's the way you come across.
hyphen said:
Appears the posturing to cameras has stopped for now. they are now acting like grown ups.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/18/e...
The interesting thing from that article, IMO, is Barnier's alleged stance on what constitutes "sufficient progress" on the payment.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/18/e...
"Sufficient progress" has been noted from the outset by the EU as the point from which we can also start talking about trade. And it looks like Barnier is happy that "sufficient progress" doesn't include being specific on what the amount of the payment should be. This is a pretty big deal if true, IMO.
Why? Because it means that the actual specific amount is then open for finalisation in parallel to discussions on the trade deal. And the actual amount we pay is a huge lever in our negotiating position. Davis always made it clear that this was important, and it seems (again, if the article is accurate) that the EU are softening to that position.
That indicates to me that common sense may be starting to show through beyond the stupid rhetoric.
As for the EU's view on what can be sold to the UK electorate...just make the payment/terms sensible and transparent and anything can be sold easily. Start messing about and it all becomes very difficult. It will be the easiest thing in the world to sell if it's easy to see what benefits there are in the terms. If the EU could have painted the same "carrot" picture prior to 23rd June 2016 rather than get their usual big stick out, we probably wouldn't be having these discussions now.
Eddie Strohacker said:
C'mon, bleating is harsh. But hey, we're talking, that's the main thing!
Talking?, you got that well wrong, typing and posting (pish) as usual, I doubt you have anyone to talk to in real life.A sad all day long forum dweller with no friends and nothing better to do, yep that's you!.
Murph7355 said:
Why? Because it means that the actual specific amount is then open for finalisation in parallel to discussions on the trade deal. And the actual amount we pay is a huge lever in our negotiating position. Davis always made it clear that this was important, and it seems (again, if the article is accurate) that the EU are softening to that position.
To be fair, that has always been the case. "Sufficient Progress" was always designed to be a political fudge and the Eu negotiating guidelines clearly state nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. I was amazed when they were published that none of this really got picked up and instead there was a massive fuss of Gibraltar. In truth I would image the UK side was quietly delighted with much of the EU guidelines. Furthermore, it seems a huge chunk of the "Brexit Bill" is being pushed by France and Poland and relate to agriculture so the EU are far from united on the subject.
Eddie Strohacker said:
Deptford Draylons said:
I thought your claim of a 50% rise in the country backing remain from 4 extra seats on a reduced vote share was you being amusing, but you are serious ?
So Brexit isn't that bad that anyone needs to turn out and vote for the one party with an aim to reverse the result, but all you Remainers voted for the calamitous Labour party. Every day a comedy day on PH.
I love your adorable flights of fancy, leaping from one illogical deduction to the next. You'll have me in a dress sing the Internationale by tea time at this rate.So Brexit isn't that bad that anyone needs to turn out and vote for the one party with an aim to reverse the result, but all you Remainers voted for the calamitous Labour party. Every day a comedy day on PH.
If you did vote Labour, could you speak a little on their position on Brexit and why you thought this best given the scale of the coming problem as you see it ? Their position seems somewhat confused on every single aspect of Brexit, which makes me wonder why anyone interested in reversing Brexit ( if you are truthful ) or staying in the SM and CU ( if more diplomatic ) would vote for them. Or do with have a few closet Remainers who voted Tory and backing their vision of Brexit ?
Deptford Draylons said:
No interest in your crossdressing activities, thanks. I just find it interesting you seemingly voted Labour to correct the coming ( according to you ) ruination of the country due to Brexit, and that other Remainers didn't even stick with the LibDems enough not to see their vote share drop.
If you did vote Labour, could you speak a little on their position on Brexit and why you thought this best given the scale of the coming problem as you see it ? Their position seems somewhat confused on every single aspect of Brexit, which makes me wonder why anyone interested in reversing Brexit ( if you are truthful ) or staying in the SM and CU ( if more diplomatic ) would vote for them. Or do with have a few closet Remainers who voted Tory and backing their vision of Brexit ?
Once again, you make a leap of logic you are in no position to perform. Was there anything else I can help you with?If you did vote Labour, could you speak a little on their position on Brexit and why you thought this best given the scale of the coming problem as you see it ? Their position seems somewhat confused on every single aspect of Brexit, which makes me wonder why anyone interested in reversing Brexit ( if you are truthful ) or staying in the SM and CU ( if more diplomatic ) would vote for them. Or do with have a few closet Remainers who voted Tory and backing their vision of Brexit ?
Eddie Strohacker said:
I'd be up for a PM with a pair of balls sacking BoJo, Fox & Human Pob, Gove the stabby then going on TV to explain why & calling the whole bullst off & fk the will of Sunderland or wherever.
I am sure you are.t off & fk the will of Sunderland or wherever. My two questions to you, that you refuse to answer are why that wont happen.
Eddie Strohacker said:
Deptford Draylons said:
No interest in your crossdressing activities, thanks. I just find it interesting you seemingly voted Labour to correct the coming ( according to you ) ruination of the country due to Brexit, and that other Remainers didn't even stick with the LibDems enough not to see their vote share drop.
If you did vote Labour, could you speak a little on their position on Brexit and why you thought this best given the scale of the coming problem as you see it ? Their position seems somewhat confused on every single aspect of Brexit, which makes me wonder why anyone interested in reversing Brexit ( if you are truthful ) or staying in the SM and CU ( if more diplomatic ) would vote for them. Or do with have a few closet Remainers who voted Tory and backing their vision of Brexit ?
Once again, you make a leap of logic you are in no position to perform. Was there anything else I can help you with?If you did vote Labour, could you speak a little on their position on Brexit and why you thought this best given the scale of the coming problem as you see it ? Their position seems somewhat confused on every single aspect of Brexit, which makes me wonder why anyone interested in reversing Brexit ( if you are truthful ) or staying in the SM and CU ( if more diplomatic ) would vote for them. Or do with have a few closet Remainers who voted Tory and backing their vision of Brexit ?
That kinda only leaves Tory and Labour given Brexit is apparently everything, but then why would you vote Tory and their ultra hard Brexit and ruination of the country. So shy Labour voter who doesn't wish to be seen voting for them ?
Eddie Strohacker said:
Deptford Draylons said:
No interest in your crossdressing activities, thanks. I just find it interesting you seemingly voted Labour to correct the coming ( according to you ) ruination of the country due to Brexit, and that other Remainers didn't even stick with the LibDems enough not to see their vote share drop.
If you did vote Labour, could you speak a little on their position on Brexit and why you thought this best given the scale of the coming problem as you see it ? Their position seems somewhat confused on every single aspect of Brexit, which makes me wonder why anyone interested in reversing Brexit ( if you are truthful ) or staying in the SM and CU ( if more diplomatic ) would vote for them. Or do with have a few closet Remainers who voted Tory and backing their vision of Brexit ?
Once again, you make a leap of logic you are in no position to perform. Was there anything else I can help you with?If you did vote Labour, could you speak a little on their position on Brexit and why you thought this best given the scale of the coming problem as you see it ? Their position seems somewhat confused on every single aspect of Brexit, which makes me wonder why anyone interested in reversing Brexit ( if you are truthful ) or staying in the SM and CU ( if more diplomatic ) would vote for them. Or do with have a few closet Remainers who voted Tory and backing their vision of Brexit ?
Was it the Greens that rocked your boat, or one of the other parties?
I guess you might suffer from a bad back like one of the other members on here and never made the polling booth.
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