How do we think EU negotiations will go?

[FN2TypeR]

jjlynn27 said:

LOL. Someone is trolling express pretty hard; 58% of express readers would vote to stay in the EU if another referendum.

[PurpleMoonlight]

Murph7355 said:

So the EU want us to pay what we are alleged to owe, but want us to tell them what that figure is and how it is made up? Seriously?

They probably have a figure in mind that they will settle for, and want us to make an offer in the hope we offer more which they will then accept.

[jjlynn27]

Murph7355 said:

So the EU want us to pay what we are alleged to owe, but want us to tell them what that figure is and how it is made up? Seriously?

No, not seriously. You are misreading what he says. Your undiluted hatred of EU is clouding your vision.

[ORD]

Nothingtoseehere said:

Carl_Manchester said:

Do you have a source for this 23% drop or can you share your working out?

I'm still waiting for his poll that everyone's changed their mind on brexit..

You can presumably both use Google.

None of it is hard to find.

[Robertj21a]

ORD said:

Yeah! fk those successful companies. Who cares what they say?!

Who cares what happens to the companies that pay 1/3 of all UK tax?!

You literally could not make up either the blithering idiocy or the supreme insouciance of Brexiteers.

If our top companies suffer, we all suffer. Badly.

I'm sure that we all care about our top companies. Hopefully, they have management that is sufficiently capable of understanding that they may need to fully earn their salaries in order to survive once we leave the EU.

[Digga]

Carl_Manchester said:

Digga said:

Speaking of project fear, bit of a clanger from the FT here: https://twitter.com/notayesmansecon/status/8879569...

Typo on year aside it would be a more interesting graph if they had plotted the total uk personal credit numbers on a separate line.

I don't know whether to be re-assured by the consumer retail spending line shooting for the stars or to be tightening my seatbelt and clutching onto the seat handles

Totally unconnected to brexit of course, more a result of a BOE drunk at the controls afraid to touch any of the buttons in case they do worse than the computer currently flying the plane.

Could simply be that, irrespective of which way people voted in the referendum - or which way they'd vote now for that matter (Ord) - they've decided that since the worst predictions of project fear have proved totally and utterly unfounded, they will get on with life again and deal with each armageddon if and when it comes.

[jonnyb]

Robertj21a said:

ORD said:

Yeah! fk those successful companies. Who cares what they say?!

Who cares what happens to the companies that pay 1/3 of all UK tax?!

You literally could not make up either the blithering idiocy or the supreme insouciance of Brexiteers.

If our top companies suffer, we all suffer. Badly.

I'm sure that we all care about our top companies. Hopefully, they have management that is sufficiently capable of understanding that they may need to fully earn their salaries in order to survive once we leave the EU.

I think they know what to do to survive. It entails moving large amounts of UK jobs to the EU.

[London424]

Digga said:

Carl_Manchester said:

Digga said:

Speaking of project fear, bit of a clanger from the FT here: https://twitter.com/notayesmansecon/status/8879569...

Typo on year aside it would be a more interesting graph if they had plotted the total uk personal credit numbers on a separate line.

I don't know whether to be re-assured by the consumer retail spending line shooting for the stars or to be tightening my seatbelt and clutching onto the seat handles

Totally unconnected to brexit of course, more a result of a BOE drunk at the controls afraid to touch any of the buttons in case they do worse than the computer currently flying the plane.

Could simply be that, irrespective of which way people voted in the referendum - or which way they'd vote now for that matter (Ord) - they've decided that since the worst predictions of project fear have proved totally and utterly unfounded, they will get on with life again and deal with each armageddon if and when it comes.

I'm still waiting to be killed by Swine Flu...or is it Avian Flu...or Ebola...or...

[FN2TypeR]

London424 said:

I'm still waiting to be killed by Swine Flu...or is it Avian Flu...or Ebola...or...

Georg Osborne said that Godzilla would knock my house down if we voted to leave the EU but it's still standing

About as fanciful a possibility as the tripe laid out in his treasuries report on the subject

[Atomic12C]

So the media is reporting that France wants to use Brexit process as a means to damage the UK economy.
And Germany have MEPs saying that the goal of the Brexit negotiations is to punish the UK and stop any other members contemplating the idea of leaving.

Great neighbours we have.

All this shouts one thing to me...."why would we ever want be part of such a petty organisation anyways?"

And why would any other country want to join up knowing that the process of leaving, if that is what works best for their national interest, is likely to be a painful drawn out process whereby your 'close friends' wish to hurt your prosperity?

[ORD]

Atomic12C said:

So the media is reporting that France wants to use Brexit process as a means to damage the UK economy.
And Germany have MEPs saying that the goal of the Brexit negotiations is to punish the UK and stop any other members contemplating the idea of leaving.

Great neighbours we have.

All this shouts one thing to me...."why would we ever want be part of such a petty organisation anyways?"

And why would any other country want to join up knowing that the process of leaving, if that is what works best for their national interest, is likely to be a painful drawn out process whereby your 'close friends' wish to hurt your prosperity?

Perfectly legitimate stances for France and Germany to take.


And we would want to be part of the EU because our membership is massively beneficial to us.

[Funk]

Atomic12C said:

So the media is reporting that France wants to use Brexit process as a means to damage the UK economy.
And Germany have MEPs saying that the goal of the Brexit negotiations is to punish the UK and stop any other members contemplating the idea of leaving.

Great neighbours we have.

All this shouts one thing to me...."why would we ever want be part of such a petty organisation anyways?"

And why would any other country want to join up knowing that the process of leaving, if that is what works best for their national interest, is likely to be a painful drawn out process whereby your 'close friends' wish to hurt your prosperity?

It's the difference between leaving a company where your contribution was significant and everyone whips round, buys you a leaving gift, signs a card and goes on the lash for an evening to wish you well in the new role you're going to...

...or like trying to leave Scientology.

To be frank if that's the kind of petty, snotty attitudes being shown by France and Germany then we're doing the right thing getting out.

[Eddie Strohacker]

Atomic12C said:

So the media is reporting that France wants to use Brexit process as a means to damage the UK economy.
And Germany have MEPs saying that the goal of the Brexit negotiations is to punish the UK and stop any other members contemplating the idea of leaving.

Great neighbours we have.

All this shouts one thing to me...."why would we ever want be part of such a petty organisation anyways?"

And why would any other country want to join up knowing that the process of leaving, if that is what works best for their national interest, is likely to be a painful drawn out process whereby your 'close friends' wish to hurt your prosperity?

Works both ways.

[Robertj21a]

ORD said:

Perfectly legitimate stances for France and Germany to take.


And we would want to be part of the EU because our membership is massively beneficial to us.

Seems that 52% disagree with you (probably more now).

[PurpleMoonlight]

Atomic12C said:

So the media is reporting that France wants to use Brexit process as a means to damage the UK economy.
And Germany have MEPs saying that the goal of the Brexit negotiations is to punish the UK and stop any other members contemplating the idea of leaving.

Great neighbours we have.

All this shouts one thing to me...."why would we ever want be part of such a petty organisation anyways?"

And why would any other country want to join up knowing that the process of leaving, if that is what works best for their national interest, is likely to be a painful drawn out process whereby your 'close friends' wish to hurt your prosperity?

They are probably pissed off because they are going to have to pick up the funding shortfall.

[Eddie Strohacker]

Robertj21a said:

Seems that 52% disagree with you (probably more now).

More? Got a reputable source for that?

[ORD]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Robertj21a said:

Seems that 52% disagree with you (probably more now).

More? Got a reputable source for that?

British bulldogs dont need source...or trade....or economic stability.

They just need to stick out their tongues at those mean foreigners who dont seem to like us shooting ourselves in the face in a way that hurts them too.

[Murph7355]

jjlynn27 said:

Murph7355 said:

So the EU want us to pay what we are alleged to owe, but want us to tell them what that figure is and how it is made up? Seriously?

No, not seriously. You are misreading what he says. Your undiluted hatred of EU is clouding your vision.

Enlighten me

btw, I don't "hate" the EU. I dislike many of the powerful people within it as I think they are self serving knob jockeys (a title many UK politicians also have IMO). And I think it's seriously misguided in its objectives. Bute "hate" is a touch strong.

I could see some benefits in it being a trading bloc and encouraging frictionless trade. But...

Things like FoM and many of the frameworks built over the last 40yrs are unnecessary political constructs.

However, if you are going to insist upon these, you cannot do them in isolation. You must go the whole hog down the fiscal and political union path. They haven't because the EU leaders know that there would hardly be any takers amongst the member states. They've tried lurching towards it and the last attempt (2008) was rebuffed. They'll keep trying despite appetite for going that far still being somewhat light. Which is something else I dislike about the EU. Their default answer is more EU whether the people they allegedly serve want it or not.

If more sensible heads had prevailed amongst the EU leadership (so not people like Juncker and Verhofstadt amongst other luminaries) I would have been quite happy to have remained. If they'd been significantly more transparent about the objectives and significantly more open to the electorates having their say, even more so.

That would never have happened though. As IMO the EU would never have moved beyond being a trading bloc

[Atomic12C]

ORD said:

And we would want to be part of the EU because our membership is massively beneficial to us.

The EU referendum vote would disagree with that notion.

It may be beneficial to some. Not all.
And on the balance of benefits vs drawbacks, the UK vote showed that there may be more drawbacks than benefits....at least to the voting public.

[FiF]

One thing, where the UK demonstrates that it wants to try and be reasonable and proposes concrete suggestions, eg rights of citizens, EHIC just two examples where I think our proposals are reasonable start points, the EU shows it has no intention of being reasonable. As a Flexciter, and therefore one of the most moderate on the Leave side. this is just hardening my resolve, and I suspect that of others. I'd guess that the EU and Remainers think a really good job is being done by their negotiators, really it's not. More determined by every week. Think on that people.