How do we think EU negotiations will go?

[anonymous-user]

Deptford Draylons said:

B'stard Child said:

///ajd said:

Genuinely delighted about the e-Mini news.

What no antidote to offset it??

Jaw is on the floor.............

I think he learnt from getting burnt on the Nissan news, that its unwise to talk pure bullst of illegal state aid in an effort to spew as much negativity on PH as possible.

he still tried to put a negative slant on it by stating the new electric motor parts will be made in Germany and shipped over, and the fact its a current design being modified, so made sense to build it in the UK, but by the time the next design comes along we will have left the EU, so it would be less likely the new design is to be built in the UK. He cant hep himself.

[Murph7355]

jsf said:

he still tried to put a negative slant on it by stating the new electric motor parts will be made in Germany and shipped over, and the fact its a current design being modified, so made sense to build it in the UK, but by the time the next design comes along we will have left the EU, so it would be less likely the new design is to be built in the UK. He cant hep himself.

Even better if we have to import some bits from the EU. Just shows that BMW are even less concerned about EU tariffs and customs friction...

[Eddie Strohacker]

Murph7355 said:

Even better if we have to import some bits from the EU. Just shows that BMW are even less concerned about EU tariffs and customs friction...

Erm...you can't really back that claim until we see the retail price of the car & moreover the crunch will come when an all new model requiring a new production line follows this existing variant.

Let's hope it works out for Oxford but don't count your chickens just yet.

[alfie2244]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Let's hope it works out for Oxford but don't count your chickens just yet.

Don't mention chickens FFS man

[Murph7355]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Erm...you can't really back that claim until we see the retail price of the car & moreover the crunch will come when an all new model requiring a new production line follows this existing variant.

Let's hope it works out for Oxford but don't count your chickens just yet.

In terms of retail prices, I'll defer to BMW's abilities on that front. They'll have considered this.

I fully expect car production to move around globally as it has done for 30yrs. The key thing is for our workforce to keep on top of their game efficiency wise.

I also fully expect the UK to be able to become more competitive as time goes on. Off-shoring in my industry is coming full circle. Granted not manufacturing, but I expect it to happen in many industries over time. Just depends on their change cycle.

[Eddie Strohacker]

alfie2244 said:

Don't mention chickens FFS man

Yes let's mention chickens. Someone needs to point out the absurdity of turning the country upside down in the name of taking back control (whatever that means) only to potentially end up being forced to accept someone else's crappy product standards. No wonder old Holborn Deptford was so keen to spit on the floor in that singularly charming way of theirs when it came up yesterday.

[Eddie Strohacker]

Murph7355 said:

I fully expect car production to move around globally as it has done for 30yrs. The key thing is for our workforce to keep on top of their game efficiency wise.
.

Murph, you are without question an even handed contributor on this thread, but this and to a lesser extent, the parts I didn't quote is the language of the apologist.

[Tuna]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Yes let's mention chickens. Someone needs to point out the absurdity of turning the country upside down in the name of taking back control (whatever that means) only to potentially end up being forced to accept someone else's crappy product standards.

No-one is forcing anyone. We can choose. Just as we chose lower standards than the Americans when it came to building facades.

In the unlikely event that the American trade deal hinges on free entry of chlorinated chickens to our country, there will still be a choice - buy one or don't. Country of origin will most likely be displayed so you can take your choice as you see fit.

Unless, in your apocalyptic vision of the future you expect that the Food Standards Agency suddenly permits the sale of food actually proven to do harm to the consumer (hint: chlorinated chickens don't fit that bill) and then all other food of that type is removed from the shelves, and then you are forced to buy and eat a foodstuff that you could just skip.

Then, yes, that would be bad.

[Eddie Strohacker]

Hint: I know they don't. I'm illustrating an easy to understand example of one product in many thousands where our existing standards could be undermined by the chain of events set in motion by this process where your choice may be that or a much higher welfare product at a nice 5% premium. We took back control!

Edited by Eddie Strohacker on Wednesday 26th July 13:15

[barryrs]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Hint: I know they don't. I'm illustrating an easy to understand example of one product in many thousands where our existing standards could be undermined by the chain of events set in motion by this process.

Can I ask why the importation of chlorinated washed chicken would undermine UK standards when many would say this produce exceeds them.

[Sway]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Murph7355 said:

Even better if we have to import some bits from the EU. Just shows that BMW are even less concerned about EU tariffs and customs friction...

Erm...you can't really back that claim until we see the retail price of the car & moreover the crunch will come when an all new model requiring a new production line follows this existing variant.

Let's hope it works out for Oxford but don't count your chickens just yet.

BMW have invested a staggering amount into Oxford - there is no hope that they'll decide to remove MINI production from there next gen, that'd mean closing the plant as there's nothing else in their lineup.

It also helps it's one of the most efficient lines in the BMW group, able to accommodate massive levels of variability in a mixed flow line, with a supply chain structures entirely around supporting that. This is the key to the MINI's popularity and profitability.

[skahigh]

Chlorine washed chicken seems to be more of an ideological issue than anything.

The level of chlorine ingested would appear to be low:



The reason for it being banned in the EU seems to be because it masks less hygienic practices in the production of the finished product but, is there any evidence that the final product is any less hygienic or harmful than EU chicken?

[alfie2244]

Eddie Strohacker said:

alfie2244 said:

Don't mention chickens FFS man

Yes let's mention chickens. Someone needs to point out the absurdity of turning the country upside down in the name of taking back control (whatever that means) only to potentially end up being forced to accept someone else's crappy product standards. No wonder old Holborn Deptford was so keen to spit on the floor in that singularly charming way of theirs when it came up yesterday.

Why would we be forced to buy chickens from the US? Would it not mean we, the UK, would be able to decide the product standards we wanted regardless whether they were US or EU standards that have been developed having taking in 27 other countries' requirements and not tailored purely for our own?

Not a clue what you are on about re old Holborn Deptford ...and not sure I am that interested either sorry.

[Deptford Draylons]

Eddie Strohacker said:

alfie2244 said:

Don't mention chickens FFS man

Yes let's mention chickens. Someone needs to point out the absurdity of turning the country upside down in the name of taking back control (whatever that means) only to potentially end up being forced to accept someone else's crappy product standards. No wonder old Holborn Deptford was so keen to spit on the floor in that singularly charming way of theirs when it came up yesterday.

It's a small part of a trade deal, the same part of a trade deal it would be if we were letting the EU handle the deal for 28 countries who would all try and pull the deal in different directions.
The faux chicken outrage from the normal PH dolts is laughable, morons determined just to moan about Brexit in any possible way. It's no wonder so many of you are piss the bed weak and defeatist, when you turn up here and try and discuss trade deals and have to pretend the chicken thing is some huge insurmountable deal and no good can come of it.

[anonymous-user]

Deptford Draylons said:

It's a small part of a trade deal, the same part of a trade deal it would be if we were letting the EU handle the deal for 28 countries who would all try and pull the deal in different directions.
The faux chicken outrage from the normal PH dolts is laughable, morons determined just to moan about Brexit in any possible way. It's no wonder so many of you are piss the bed weak and defeatist, when you turn up here and try and discuss trade deals and have to pretend the chicken thing is some huge insurmountable deal and no good can come of it.

I don't think Gove agrees with you.

[Eddie Strohacker]

Sway said:

BMW have invested a staggering amount into Oxford - there is no hope that they'll decide to remove MINI production from there next gen, that'd mean closing the plant as there's nothing else in their lineup.

It also helps it's one of the most efficient lines in the BMW group, able to accommodate massive levels of variability in a mixed flow line, with a supply chain structures entirely around supporting that. This is the key to the MINI's popularity and profitability.

What you've done there is make a long winded guess. I hope you're right.

[Murph7355]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Hint: I know they don't. I'm illustrating an easy to understand example of one product in many thousands where our existing standards could be undermined by the chain of events set in motion by this process where your choice may be that or a much higher welfare product at a nice 5% premium. We took back control!

Why is letting the man in the street decide, a bad thing?

We already have the same choices. Buy "organic" or not? Where's the difference?

[Sway]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Sway said:

BMW have invested a staggering amount into Oxford - there is no hope that they'll decide to remove MINI production from there next gen, that'd mean closing the plant as there's nothing else in their lineup.

It also helps it's one of the most efficient lines in the BMW group, able to accommodate massive levels of variability in a mixed flow line, with a supply chain structures entirely around supporting that. This is the key to the MINI's popularity and profitability.

What you've done there is make a long winded guess. I hope you're right.

Not really - it's an awareness of the cost, difficulty and lead time to achieve what they already have in Oxford, elsewhere within the EU. It's a mammoth undertaking, to avoid some potential routine management of supply chain operations or mitigation of tariffs. Plus it's a risk, as very few other nations have a track record such as ours so the end result of that replication is just as likely to bring about different problems that may be far more difficult to overcome.

We really are the best in the world at mixed process/model production, demonstrated admirably by Nissan, Honda and MINI, to name but three.

Not to mention the brand associations with the UK.

[Murph7355]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Murph, you are without question an even handed contributor on this thread, but this and to a lesser extent, the parts I didn't quote is the language of the apologist.

Thank you.

I prefer realist.

There is no hard and fast reason why production must move. The Sunderland and Oxford workers have proved that.

But to expect EVERY production line to do the same, Brexit or no Brexit, is realistic. Look at Ryton and Southampton for examples. (Though maybe the workers there could never have done anything about their lot.. If I weren't so even handed I'd take off my apologist cap and focus on the EU perhaps ).

[KarlMac]

Sway said:

Eddie Strohacker said:

Sway said:

BMW have invested a staggering amount into Oxford - there is no hope that they'll decide to remove MINI production from there next gen, that'd mean closing the plant as there's nothing else in their lineup.

It also helps it's one of the most efficient lines in the BMW group, able to accommodate massive levels of variability in a mixed flow line, with a supply chain structures entirely around supporting that. This is the key to the MINI's popularity and profitability.

What you've done there is make a long winded guess. I hope you're right.

Not really - it's an awareness of the cost, difficulty and lead time to achieve what they already have in Oxford, elsewhere within the EU. It's a mammoth undertaking, to avoid some potential routine management of supply chain operations or mitigation of tariffs. Plus it's a risk, as very few other nations have a track record such as ours so the end result of that replication is just as likely to bring about different problems that may be far more difficult to overcome.

We really are the best in the world at mixed process/model production, demonstrated admirably by Nissan, Honda and MINI, to name but three.

Not to mention the brand associations with the UK.

Also worth not forgetting that to get a greenfield automotive site running and someway efficient takes 3-5 years. This is widely accepted fact in the industry. Take a look at how McLarens operations have gone and there only building small numbers.

For what it's worth both me and sway have worked in supply chain management for advanced manufacturing / automotive so do have some idea what we're on about.

BMW know how big a market the UK is for them, which is why their Finance Minister has started turning the screw on the EU.