How do we think EU negotiations will go?

[Eddie Strohacker]

Murph7355 said:

Why is letting the man in the street decide, a bad thing?

We already have the same choices. Buy "organic" or not? Where's the difference?

It isn't concentrating power in the hands of the man in the street, that's the entire point. It's a fact that USA food production standards are sloppier than our EU derived standards. After Brexit, those standards will stay on the statute book, at least for a few years while a mountain of legislation is worked through, that will slow negotiations with a steelier USA under Trump (America first!)

Bilateral negotiations nearly always favour the larger partner & in the case of America, that's by a factor of six, so if you choose to believe Liam Fox & who in their right mind would? then the position he's stated publicly that an EU deal will be the easiest trade deal in history then coming to a quick agreement with America implies not a trimming of red tape but a bonfire of regulations. That will hurt the consumer & every EU standard we ditch for America will make life harder making a deal with the EU, so not the easiest deal in history at all.

in 2016, 19% of our exports went to the US, 44% to the EU. There is no way the difference will be made up by a US trade deal, so if Tesco fills up with chlorinated chicken, it will be the very definition of a pyrrhic victory.

[anonymous-user]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Yes let's mention chickens. Someone needs to point out the absurdity of turning the country upside down in the name of taking back control (whatever that means) only to potentially end up being forced to accept someone else's crappy product standards. No wonder old Holborn Deptford was so keen to spit on the floor in that singularly charming way of theirs when it came up yesterday.

Even if a FTA allowed lower standard quality products, the consumer always controls the eventual quality of what they will buy or accept in the market. Usually this manifests itself via product labelling, advertising or social media campaigns, It's one area the UK consumer is often well ahead of mainland Europe, we are very pro good practices with regards to animal welfare and food quality in general, and when someone tries pulling a fast one, we punish the company concerned in their wallet.

[Eddie Strohacker]

jsf said:

Even if a FTA allowed lower standard quality products, the consumer always controls the eventual quality of what they will buy or accept in the market. Usually this manifests itself via product labelling, advertising or social media campaigns, It's one area the UK consumer is often well ahead of mainland Europe, we are very pro good practices with regards to animal welfare and food quality in general, and when someone tries pulling a fast one, we punish the company concerned in their wallet.

You made all of that up. See above.

[FN2TypeR]

Eddie Strohacker said:

It isn't concentrating power in the hands of the man in the street, that's the entire point. It's a fact that USA food production standards are sloppier than our EU derived standards. After Brexit, those standards will stay on the statute book, at least for a few years while a mountain of legislation is worked through, that will slow negotiations with a steelier USA under Trump (America first!)

Bilateral negotiations nearly always favour the larger partner & in the case of America, that's by a factor of six, so if you choose to believe Liam Fox & who in their right mind would? then the position he's stated publicly that an EU deal will be the easiest trade deal in history then coming to a quick agreement with America implies not a trimming of red tape but a bonfire of regulations. That will hurt the consumer & every EU standard we ditch for America will make life harder making a deal with the EU, so not the easiest deal in history at all.

in 2016, 19% of our exports went to the US, 44% to the EU. There is no way the difference will be made up by a US trade deal, so if Tesco fills up with chlorinated chicken, it will be the very definition of a pyrrhic victory.

How far our EU bound exports be falling post Brexit out of interest?

[Deptford Draylons]

FN2TypeR said:

Eddie Strohacker said:

It isn't concentrating power in the hands of the man in the street, that's the entire point. It's a fact that USA food production standards are sloppier than our EU derived standards. After Brexit, those standards will stay on the statute book, at least for a few years while a mountain of legislation is worked through, that will slow negotiations with a steelier USA under Trump (America first!)

Bilateral negotiations nearly always favour the larger partner & in the case of America, that's by a factor of six, so if you choose to believe Liam Fox & who in their right mind would? then the position he's stated publicly that an EU deal will be the easiest trade deal in history then coming to a quick agreement with America implies not a trimming of red tape but a bonfire of regulations. That will hurt the consumer & every EU standard we ditch for America will make life harder making a deal with the EU, so not the easiest deal in history at all.

in 2016, 19% of our exports went to the US, 44% to the EU. There is no way the difference will be made up by a US trade deal, so if Tesco fills up with chlorinated chicken, it will be the very definition of a pyrrhic victory.

How far our EU bound exports be falling post Brexit out of interest?

You shouldn't really even have to ask that question, if the person citing it had half a clue what he was on about. But it seems to be the done thing you just turn up, predict doom, say it can't be done and will all be one big failure and then wonder why people don't marvel at your genius.
As per usual, he won't know what the figure is, he'll just know the difference will be there and it can't be overcome. As least Private Frazer kept it short and sweet - we're doomed !

[Tuna]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Hint: I know they don't. I'm illustrating an easy to understand example of one product in many thousands where our existing standards could be undermined by the chain of events set in motion by this process where your choice may be that or a much higher welfare product at a nice 5% premium. We took back control!

Edited by Eddie Strohacker on Wednesday 26th July 13:15

And I responded by pointing out that the weasel word in your statement is *could* - yes, they could, but it would depend on a whole chain of things that you cannot predict with any certainty. So how you can use this to illustrate anything other than that we cannot predict the future, I don't know. If this is your idea of a damning inditement of international trade, it's pretty weak. No, very weak. Stuff could change - news at 11.

And let's face it, the consequence of it changing is nothing worse than cheaper chicken in the bargain buckets at the supermarket. Are you really arguing that some middle England obsession over artisan food quality is more important than people being able to buy food cheaper?

Of course, I'm going to have to spell out that it works both ways. The US safety standards on building facades would not have allowed Grenfell to happen.

[Eddie Strohacker]

Tuna said:

And I responded by pointing out that the weasel word in your statement is *could* - yes, they could, but it would depend on a whole chain of things that you cannot predict with any certainty. So how you can use this to illustrate anything other than that we cannot predict the future, I don't know. If this is your idea of a damning inditement of international trade, it's pretty weak. No, very weak. Stuff could change - news at 11.

And let's face it, the consequence of it changing is nothing worse than cheaper chicken in the bargain buckets at the supermarket. Are you really arguing that some middle England obsession over artisan food quality is more important than people being able to buy food cheaper?

Of course, I'm going to have to spell out that it works both ways. The US safety standards on building facades would not have allowed Grenfell to happen.

Nope, I spelt out at length the risks involved in a hasty trade deal with the US, of which delicious Chlorination chicken serves as a handy pivot point. Too bad you just took the easy path. Again.

[The Mad Monk]

I think the EU negotiations will be very drawn out and boring.

[Deptford Draylons]

The Mad Monk said:

I think the EU negotiations will be very drawn out and boring.

Succinct.

[anonymous-user]

Eddie Strohacker said:

jsf said:

Even if a FTA allowed lower standard quality products, the consumer always controls the eventual quality of what they will buy or accept in the market. Usually this manifests itself via product labelling, advertising or social media campaigns, It's one area the UK consumer is often well ahead of mainland Europe, we are very pro good practices with regards to animal welfare and food quality in general, and when someone tries pulling a fast one, we punish the company concerned in their wallet.

You made all of that up. See above.

Well, the form of letters that found their way onto the internet were created in my mind, I'll give you that. The narrative of what was written follows reality though.

[alfie2244]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Nope, I spelt out at length the risks involved in a hasty trade deal with the US, of which delicious Chlorination chicken serves as a handy pivot point. Too bad you just took the easy path. Again.

I told you not to mention the chicken but did you listen?

[FN2TypeR]

alfie2244 said:

Eddie Strohacker said:

Nope, I spelt out at length the risks involved in a hasty trade deal with the US, of which delicious Chlorination chicken serves as a handy pivot point. Too bad you just took the easy path. Again.

I told you not to mention the chicken but did you listen?

He says that it's delicious, I wonder if he could tell the difference between chicken cleaned in such a fashion and one that is done via another method?

[babatunde]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Murph7355 said:

Why is letting the man in the street decide, a bad thing?

We already have the same choices. Buy "organic" or not? Where's the difference?

It isn't concentrating power in the hands of the man in the street, that's the entire point. It's a fact that USA food production standards are sloppier than our EU derived standards. After Brexit, those standards will stay on the statute book, at least for a few years while a mountain of legislation is worked through, that will slow negotiations with a steelier USA under Trump (America first!)

Bilateral negotiations nearly always favour the larger partner & in the case of America, that's by a factor of six, so if you choose to believe Liam Fox & who in their right mind would? then the position he's stated publicly that an EU deal will be the easiest trade deal in history then coming to a quick agreement with America implies not a trimming of red tape but a bonfire of regulations. That will hurt the consumer & every EU standard we ditch for America will make life harder making a deal with the EU, so not the easiest deal in history at all.

in 2016, 19% of our exports went to the US, 44% to the EU. There is no way the difference will be made up by a US trade deal, so if Tesco fills up with chlorinated chicken, it will be the very definition of a pyrrhic victory.

Then add in that we will be dealing with a country led by a President who is renown for throwing supporters under the bus (as his Attorney General is finding out) who is shouting MAGA, and has a history of welshing on business deals.

Why on Earth do we think we will get a better trading deal as a smaller trading counterpart?

[Eddie Strohacker]

FN2TypeR said:

He says that it's delicious, I wonder if he could tell the difference between chicken cleaned in such a fashion and one that is done via another method?

Thanks for the reminder that round here no effort at humour goes unpunished. Delicious Chlorination chicken is such a beedin' obvious play on words that it proves the wilfully obtuse accusation some of us like to bandy about. Unless you are actually clown shoes stupid in which case I obviously apologise.

[alfie2244]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Thanks for the reminder that round here no effort at humour goes unpunished. Delicious Chlorination chicken is such a beedin' obvious play on words that it proves the wilfully obtuse accusation some of us like to bandy about. Unless you are actually clown shoes stupid in which case I obviously apologise.

Stop acting like a drama Queen.

[s2art]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Thanks for the reminder that round here no effort at humour goes unpunished. Delicious Chlorination chicken is such a beedin' obvious play on words that it proves the wilfully obtuse accusation some of us like to bandy about. Unless you are actually clown shoes stupid in which case I obviously apologise.

'OVERVIEW

Foodsaf Salad Wash tablets are used throughout the world by the catering industry to meet HACCP guidelines which require that all raw fruits and vegetables are thoroughly washed with suitable sanitisers before preparation.

Foodsaf Salad Wash tablets are suitable for disinfection of salads, vegetables and non-peelable fruit, as well as food preparation surfaces and equipment. Foodsaf Salad Wash tablets are recognised and proven as an effective, highly convenient and safe food disinfectant, based on the dry chlorine donor, Sodium Dichloroisocyanurate (NaDCC).

Foodsaf Salad Wash tablets can also be used for a variety of food service disinfection applications including floors, surfaces, tiles and cloths.

In the UK 76% of the fresh produce industry uses Chlorine for washing organic produce demonstrating the widespread acceptance of chlorine-based disinfectants for food disinfection.'


There is nothing special about using chlorine compounds for washing food. Why is there so much hysteria about it?

[anonymous-user]

babatunde said:

Then add in that we will be dealing with a country led by a President who is renown for throwing supporters under the bus (as his Attorney General is finding out) who is shouting MAGA, and has a history of welshing on business deals.

Why on Earth do we think we will get a better trading deal as a smaller trading counterpart?

Trade deals, when you get past the media spin, are made by civil servants, not politicians. Even with a President who is anti a particular deal (see NAFTA) the wheels of government below are what really matters.

If an FTA gives the UK a worse deal than the current WTO, it wont be signed.

[anonymous-user]

s2art said:

There is nothing special about using chlorine compounds for washing food. Why is there so much hysteria about it?

Because Brexit.

[Eddie Strohacker]

s2art said:

hysteria

Right.

[amusingduck]

Eddie Strohacker said:

s2art said:

hysteria

Right.

Are you seriously going to try and maintain your current position after discovering that 76% of the UK's fresh produce industry use chlorine floor cleaner on your salad that you've been eating for years