How do we think EU negotiations will go?
Discussion
Sway said:
CaptainSlow said:
ORD said:
Remember being told that voting Leave didn't mean leaving the Single Market? Well, apparently it did. Etc etc etc
No, quite the opposite as we've covered numerous times before. Both sides of the debate were quite clear we'd be leaving the Single Market.Indeed.
Also, remember when people advocated the flexcit approach of single market retention during a transitional phase, and were decried as idiots getting the worst of both worlds?
Lies about lies is all very meta.
///ajd said:
Robertj21a said:
///ajd said:
I actually have a concern that (4) is higher up the ranking, but in a strategic longer term perspective.
There is a long term motive for the EU to squeeze out the UK influence from the EU, constrain our markets, make us less attractive to foreign business and in doing so slowly leech away our GDP to the EU. There maybe short term pain for some EU business, but in the long term if UK GDP migrates to the EU they will in the long term be better off. While the UK becomes the "sick man of Europe". Again.
Of course absolutely no-one is talking about moving jobs from the UK to the EU.
Good heavens, I hadn't realised that you're still on here spouting your Remoaner waffle again. At least you give me a good laugh with all the silly conspiracy theories. I just hope that nobody takes you seriously.There is a long term motive for the EU to squeeze out the UK influence from the EU, constrain our markets, make us less attractive to foreign business and in doing so slowly leech away our GDP to the EU. There maybe short term pain for some EU business, but in the long term if UK GDP migrates to the EU they will in the long term be better off. While the UK becomes the "sick man of Europe". Again.
Of course absolutely no-one is talking about moving jobs from the UK to the EU.
It is so obvious and yet so many are so naive about these kinds of motives.
You should take it seriously as it is exactly what they are doing - witness the attempts to woo the CoL firms to Paris etc. That is evidence of what I suggest whether you like to admit your vote did it or not.
I was aware this would happen and I still I voted leave, we've got a long shaky road ahead.
ORD said:
Sway said:
CaptainSlow said:
ORD said:
Remember being told that voting Leave didn't mean leaving the Single Market? Well, apparently it did. Etc etc etc
No, quite the opposite as we've covered numerous times before. Both sides of the debate were quite clear we'd be leaving the Single Market.Indeed.
Also, remember when people advocated the flexcit approach of single market retention during a transitional phase, and were decried as idiots getting the worst of both worlds?
Lies about lies is all very meta.
Robertj21a said:
Greg66 said:
Cunning. Letting them think we will just roll over, by, errr, rolling over.
Perhaps we should write them a massive cheque next. You know, to make them think we will write them a massive cheque.
Oh, wait....
I think you've missed the point.....Perhaps we should write them a massive cheque next. You know, to make them think we will write them a massive cheque.
Oh, wait....
No harm in the initial roll over. I'm not expecting us to write any massive cheque, just one that will cover our commitments. Why do you think we'll agree to any unjustified amount ?
CaptainSlow said:
ORD said:
Sway said:
CaptainSlow said:
ORD said:
Remember being told that voting Leave didn't mean leaving the Single Market? Well, apparently it did. Etc etc etc
No, quite the opposite as we've covered numerous times before. Both sides of the debate were quite clear we'd be leaving the Single Market.Indeed.
Also, remember when people advocated the flexcit approach of single market retention during a transitional phase, and were decried as idiots getting the worst of both worlds?
Lies about lies is all very meta.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/open-britain...
p1stonhead said:
Good grief.Here are a couple of blokes no-one's ever heard of saying that leaving the EU means leaving the single market.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn2hSVfqtYc
Of course, why anyone should pay any attention to them, or the £9 million they spent on a leaflet saying the same is beyond me.
Robertj21a said:
p1stonhead said:
You do realise that this exact post can be flipped to the other side? 
Yes. That's what happens in tough negotiations !.The point is that the EU will (in my view) be more frustrated by the lack of progress than we will. I reckon they will blink first.
Juncker's comments today annoyed me. "If you're drinking in the bar and walk away when the bill comes, you can't. You have to pay."
Firstly no surprise that the bar wasn't far from his mind.
Secondly it's rather different when you and a few others have been buying all the drinks at said bar for the other 23 drinkers and then get told you're a
when decide you've had enough and are then told to put your card behind the bar before you can leave.Oh, and on top of that you've paid for furniture and decorating a large part of the pub everyone's in...
Funk said:
It's worth noting when you choose to leave Sky they will ultimately capitulate and send all manner of offers to try and get you to stay (75% off for 6 months was the best I received)...
Juncker's comments today annoyed me. "If you're drinking in the bar and walk away when the bill comes, you can't. You have to pay."
Firstly no surprise that the bar wasn't far from his mind.
Secondly it's rather different when you and a few others have been buying all the drinks at said bar for the other 23 drinkers and then get told you're a when decide you've had enough and are then told to put your card behind the bar before you can leave.
Oh, and on top of that you've paid for furniture and decorating a large part of the pub everyone's in...
And paid for a spare pub in Strasbourg incase this one gets trashed or runs out of cognac.Juncker's comments today annoyed me. "If you're drinking in the bar and walk away when the bill comes, you can't. You have to pay."
Firstly no surprise that the bar wasn't far from his mind.
Secondly it's rather different when you and a few others have been buying all the drinks at said bar for the other 23 drinkers and then get told you're a
when decide you've had enough and are then told to put your card behind the bar before you can leave.Oh, and on top of that you've paid for furniture and decorating a large part of the pub everyone's in...
Let's face it when it comes to Brexit if someone has to resort to metaphor then they're talking b
ks.amgmcqueen said:
The EU keep telling us we have to pay a 'bill'. The UK asks "what is the bill for exactly?"
The EU doesn't tell us(or can't!) and says, "you have to pay a bill".......add infinitum.
It's straight from the Kim Jong Un school of negotiation.
Quite !The EU doesn't tell us(or can't!) and says, "you have to pay a bill".......add infinitum.
It's straight from the Kim Jong Un school of negotiation.
Here's an idea, we brief Donald Trump on the EU's refusal to budge an inch - and get him to take over negotiating on our behalf
Robertj21a said:
amgmcqueen said:
The EU keep telling us we have to pay a 'bill'. The UK asks "what is the bill for exactly?"
The EU doesn't tell us(or can't!) and says, "you have to pay a bill".......add infinitum.
It's straight from the Kim Jong Un school of negotiation.
Quite !The EU doesn't tell us(or can't!) and says, "you have to pay a bill".......add infinitum.
It's straight from the Kim Jong Un school of negotiation.
Here's an idea, we brief Donald Trump on the EU's refusal to budge an inch - and get him to take over negotiating on our behalf
He thinks a rise in the stock market since he took office means he’s wiped the same off the national debt!
“The country – we took it over and owed over $20 trillion. As you know the last eight years, they borrowed more than it did in the whole history of our country. So they borrowed more than $10 trillion, right? And yet, we picked up $5.2 trillion just in the stock market,” Trump told Sean Hannity. “So you could say, in one sense, we’re really increasing values. And maybe in a sense, we’re reducing debt. But we’re very honored by it.”
"Very proudly, just in the stock market alone, we have increased our economic worth by $5.2 trillion, that's right, since Election Day. $5.2 trillion. Think about that, that's a quarter of the $20 trillion that we owe."
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/embarrassi...
p1stonhead said:
It’s worth looking at those clips in context I believe.....https://medium.com/@jamesforward/a-rebuttal-to-ope...
As he also rightly states at the end of his piece The Prime Minister, The Chancellor of the Exchequer, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Angela Leadsom all said that leaving the EU would mean leaving the SM.
Edited by benny.c on Friday 13th October 20:30
benny.c said:
p1stonhead said:
It’s worth looking at those clips in context I believe.....https://medium.com/@jamesforward/a-rebuttal-to-ope...
As he rightly states at the end of his piece The Prime Minister, The Chancellor of the Exchequer, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Angela Leadsom all said that leaving the EU would mean leaving the SM.
Even that £9 Million leaflet told us.
benny.c said:
It’s worth looking at those clips in context I believe.....
https://medium.com/@jamesforward/a-rebuttal-to-ope...
As he also rightly states at the end of his piece The Prime Minister, The Chancellor of the Exchequer, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Angela Leadsom all said that leaving the EU would mean leaving the SM.
Ah the old 'access to the Single Market' chestnut. A phrase that was in itself grossly dishonest. Anyone using it does so in the hope that everyone listening is sufficiently stupid to think it means 'All the benefits; none of the costs' and, bizarrely, that it is a known and available form of arrangement. And I think, sadly, millions did understand it in that way. It was presented as a credible option when anyone with half an intellect or more knew it was pure fantasy. https://medium.com/@jamesforward/a-rebuttal-to-ope...
As he also rightly states at the end of his piece The Prime Minister, The Chancellor of the Exchequer, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Angela Leadsom all said that leaving the EU would mean leaving the SM.
Edited by benny.c on Friday 13th October 20:30
It's a meaningless phrase that only a charlatan could use.
ORD said:
There is a pretty good reason why brinkmanship is madness:
(1) The UK has ruled out an "off-the-shelf" relationship with the EU. The public will not tolerate anything sensible like membership of the Single Market, or at least that is the assumption within government.
(2) Any bespoke arrangement will take years to negotiate, not because of clever little negotiating tactics or messing about, but simply because agreeing the terms on which major economies will trade with each other and with the ROW takes time.
(3) We already have very little time to negotiate an exit deal. A 2-year transitional period adds very little other than a good reason to fail to make any progress for the time being.
(4) Any last minute attempt to hash something together will inevitably fail.
(5) In a business-business context, none of this would matter terribly because the companies would just trade on in reliance on the old arrangements. There is no such option here - the Treaty imposes a hard stop, so unless both sides can persuade their respective publics to extend the transitional period again (and again and again), a "crash out" is the only likely outcome.
However you voted, we have all been thoroughly screwed over by a small number of deeply unpleasant right-wing ideologues that despise the EU and were prepared to lie through their teeth to get a Leave vote. Remember being told that voting Leave didn't mean leaving the Single Market? Well, apparently it did. Etc etc etc
In the light of subsequent comments from others, I've just gone back to read this from you earlier today.(1) The UK has ruled out an "off-the-shelf" relationship with the EU. The public will not tolerate anything sensible like membership of the Single Market, or at least that is the assumption within government.
(2) Any bespoke arrangement will take years to negotiate, not because of clever little negotiating tactics or messing about, but simply because agreeing the terms on which major economies will trade with each other and with the ROW takes time.
(3) We already have very little time to negotiate an exit deal. A 2-year transitional period adds very little other than a good reason to fail to make any progress for the time being.
(4) Any last minute attempt to hash something together will inevitably fail.
(5) In a business-business context, none of this would matter terribly because the companies would just trade on in reliance on the old arrangements. There is no such option here - the Treaty imposes a hard stop, so unless both sides can persuade their respective publics to extend the transitional period again (and again and again), a "crash out" is the only likely outcome.
However you voted, we have all been thoroughly screwed over by a small number of deeply unpleasant right-wing ideologues that despise the EU and were prepared to lie through their teeth to get a Leave vote. Remember being told that voting Leave didn't mean leaving the Single Market? Well, apparently it did. Etc etc etc
Have you considered correcting anything that you wrote, or do you still stand by it ?
ORD said:
Ah the old 'access to the Single Market' chestnut.
...
It was presented as a credible option when anyone with half an intellect or more knew it was pure fantasy.
Such a shame that you and your cronies with your massive intellects didn't have the intellect to educate the poor moronic masses with their tiny intellects, isn't it ?...
It was presented as a credible option when anyone with half an intellect or more knew it was pure fantasy.
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