How do we think EU negotiations will go?
Discussion
jsf said:
Coolbanana said:
jsf said:
Are you a citizen of another country other than the UK, or just a UK citizen resident in another EU country as a consequence of the current UK membership terms?
UK born, UK Passport, South African Citizenship, married to a Belgian Citizen, Portuguese Residency applied for. No probs, own a house outright here and contribute, mere formality to get Citizenship here in the future. Unlikely worst case, I get a Belgian Citizenship if needs be.
One thing is certain, I'd rather return to SA than go back to the UK now but I have options to remain in the EU permanently.
The UK membership of the EU is irrelevant to your personal circumstances.
SA, stunning country but has some serious problems to overcome, and it looks to be going downhill rapidly, sadly.
Coolbanana said:
They WARNED of what could happen and the challenges that would be faced and now it is up to the Leavers to make their Utopia work OR FAIL!
Since you are a Leaver, it is YOUR responsibility to make it work. So get on with it. Prove us who believe you have erred, wrong. We* shall watch the spectacle.
This is the exact problem - it isn't the Leaver's responsibility to make it work, it's EVERYONE's responsibility. "It'll never work, it isn't possible, I told you so". It's so very easy to sit there on the sidelines pouring scorn on everything and being bitter or in denial about it. But it doesn't take many of the 47% of Remainer's spouting negativity and being divisive to make it reality. We had the vote, ok it didn't go their way, but pick up your bloody toys and put them back in the pram and get on with reality. No one said it was going to be easy, no one said it'll be utopia from day 1. Most Leavers see it as a long term plan, Remainers can't see past tomorrow.Since you are a Leaver, it is YOUR responsibility to make it work. So get on with it. Prove us who believe you have erred, wrong. We* shall watch the spectacle.
- I do not speak for all Remainers, obviously, my circumstances are different to most, I left the UK to remain in the EU, where it is better
It's th same in parliament, the biggest problem the govt have with Brexit negotiations isn't bargaining with the EU, it's the other political parties (and even some Conservative MPs), using the whole thing as a way to score political points. Corbyn is a brilliant back bench rebel, his greatest skill has always been pooh poohing his opponents without having any constructive proposals of his own that stand up to any scrutiny. FFS the bloke's been a euro sceptic for years, yet he hasn't got the balls to come out and say it now, because that would align him with his arch enemy.
As long as British politicians keep fighting each other it makes the EU's negotiating job lot easier. TM should have invited a few senior Labour politicians to join the negotiating team, I very much doubt they'd have accepted though.
Coolbanana said:
Since you are a Leaver, it is YOUR responsibility to make it work. So get on with it. Prove us who believe you have erred, wrong. We* shall watch the spectacle.
As 'Turnabout is Fairplay',- I do not speak for all Remainers, obviously, my circumstances are different to most, I left the UK to remain in the EU, where it is better
Since you are a Remainer, it was YOUR responsibility to ensure it worked. I saw no profit, and negligible benefit for myself, or my family. I believe you have erred. I have had to watch the spectacle.
- I do not speak for all Leavers, obviously, my circumstances are different to most, I served the UK for decades. I left the UK to earn money to send BACK to the old country, which is better for the country.
mjb1 said:
This is the exact problem - it isn't the Leaver's responsibility to make it work, it's EVERYONE's responsibility. "It'll never work, it isn't possible, I told you so". It's so very easy to sit there on the sidelines pouring scorn on everything and being bitter or in denial about it. But it doesn't take many of the 47% of Remainer's spouting negativity and being divisive to make it reality. We had the vote, ok it didn't go their way, but pick up your bloody toys and put them back in the pram and get on with reality. No one said it was going to be easy, no one said it'll be utopia from day 1. Most Leavers see it as a long term plan, Remainers can't see past tomorrow.
It's th same in parliament, the biggest problem the govt have with Brexit negotiations isn't bargaining with the EU, it's the other political parties (and even some Conservative MPs), using the whole thing as a way to score political points. Corbyn is a brilliant back bench rebel, his greatest skill has always been pooh poohing his opponents without having any constructive proposals of his own that stand up to any scrutiny. FFS the bloke's been a euro sceptic for years, yet he hasn't got the balls to come out and say it now, because that would align him with his arch enemy.
As long as British politicians keep fighting each other it makes the EU's negotiating job lot easier. TM should have invited a few senior Labour politicians to join the negotiating team, I very much doubt they'd have accepted though.
How strange.It's th same in parliament, the biggest problem the govt have with Brexit negotiations isn't bargaining with the EU, it's the other political parties (and even some Conservative MPs), using the whole thing as a way to score political points. Corbyn is a brilliant back bench rebel, his greatest skill has always been pooh poohing his opponents without having any constructive proposals of his own that stand up to any scrutiny. FFS the bloke's been a euro sceptic for years, yet he hasn't got the balls to come out and say it now, because that would align him with his arch enemy.
As long as British politicians keep fighting each other it makes the EU's negotiating job lot easier. TM should have invited a few senior Labour politicians to join the negotiating team, I very much doubt they'd have accepted though.
Leavers wanted sovereignty and to get it they seek a dictatorship.
Burwood said:
Exactly what I’d say. Go back and enjoy
SA? I go back nearly every year. I have a home in Kruger National Park ☺ My Family lives in Durban, as do many friends. They are doing very, very well. It is far from all doom and gloom there.
Sure, it has serious problems but it is also a stunning country and a good businessperson can enjoy a great life.
But I am very happy here in The Algarve, thanks. 300 days of Sun each year, easy access to the rest of Europe.
And to answer JSF, correct, I moved because regardless of the vote, I spent 17 years in the UK making plans and an income from the good, British folk to afford my eventual move to somewhere I prefer to be.
I still have a company in the UK that I had intended to let go but it involves very little effort on my part and has seen a profit jump...my SA business is going well and is my main focus but the UK business involves Consumer Credit and just keeps getting stronger...now get this: it makes me wealthier when the UK is in its current state, my profit margin has increased since the Referendum and if I am correct as a Remainer and the UK suffers further, I will be better off.
Whereas prior to the Great Vote, my UK business was seeing a steady decline post recession.
So the losses I have incurred due to a weakened Pound when relocating abroad, have more than been compensated for by Leavers filling my coffers thanks to their Vote ☺
Yet, I would have it the other way, I would rather the UK have thrived better as it was clearly doing post Recession.
So, Leavers, you are directly responsible for my UK profits being greater, I thank you, and I will continue to take your money, I have no issues with that whatsoever since I am providing a service many clearly want, but the more I make, the greater the evidence that the Vote to Leave was wrong, because it means more borrowing!
So, yeah, I am convinced Remain was the correct way Britons to have voted.
My vote would have seen my business there decline a little more, your Vote has sent it the opposite direction but it isn't a sign of a prospering UK in this case.
To the chap who wrote what did I do to make Life better before the Referendum, well, dear Boy, I was confident in the fact that post Labour and the Recession the UK was doing just fine!
Now you have caused a shift and so yes, every Leaver is now complicit in the eventual outcome of what happens next.
It is your legacy that is at stake now, are you going to be seen as being among those who weakened the UK and humiliated it on the World stage or are you going to prove you were correct after all? ☺
The stakes are high for you Leavers, you have a lot to do and prove now. Best get on with it.
mjb1 said:
This is the exact problem - it isn't the Leaver's responsibility to make it work, it's EVERYONE's responsibility. "It'll never work, it isn't possible, I told you so". It's so very easy to sit there on the sidelines pouring scorn on everything and being bitter or in denial about it. But it doesn't take many of the 47% of Remainer's spouting negativity and being divisive to make it reality. We had the vote, ok it didn't go their way, but pick up your bloody toys and put them back in the pram and get on with reality. No one said it was going to be easy, no one said it'll be utopia from day 1. Most Leavers see it as a long term plan, Remainers can't see past tomorrow.
It's th same in parliament, the biggest problem the govt have with Brexit negotiations isn't bargaining with the EU, it's the other political parties (and even some Conservative MPs), using the whole thing as a way to score political points. Corbyn is a brilliant back bench rebel, his greatest skill has always been pooh poohing his opponents without having any constructive proposals of his own that stand up to any scrutiny. FFS the bloke's been a euro sceptic for years, yet he hasn't got the balls to come out and say it now, because that would align him with his arch enemy.
As long as British politicians keep fighting each other it makes the EU's negotiating job lot easier. TM should have invited a few senior Labour politicians to join the negotiating team, I very much doubt they'd have accepted though.
It's worth bearing in mind that it's probably only a very small % of Remainers who are so upset that they will go into a permanent sulk, and do everything possible to cause problems - reasonably understandable as nobody likes to 'lose' if it relates to a personal belief. It's th same in parliament, the biggest problem the govt have with Brexit negotiations isn't bargaining with the EU, it's the other political parties (and even some Conservative MPs), using the whole thing as a way to score political points. Corbyn is a brilliant back bench rebel, his greatest skill has always been pooh poohing his opponents without having any constructive proposals of his own that stand up to any scrutiny. FFS the bloke's been a euro sceptic for years, yet he hasn't got the balls to come out and say it now, because that would align him with his arch enemy.
As long as British politicians keep fighting each other it makes the EU's negotiating job lot easier. TM should have invited a few senior Labour politicians to join the negotiating team, I very much doubt they'd have accepted though.
But it's still only that small %, not all those others that voted to remain in the EU. Despite their initial disappointment, the bulk recognise that the whole country is leaving the EU and that they, and everyone else, now needs to ensure that we all achieve what is possible to ensure good lives for all of us.
Robertj21a said:
It's worth bearing in mind that it's probably only a very small % of Remainers who are so upset that they will go into a permanent sulk, and do everything possible to cause problems - reasonably understandable as nobody likes to 'lose' if it relates to a personal belief.
But it's still only that small %, not all those others that voted to remain in the EU. Despite their initial disappointment, the bulk recognise that the whole country is leaving the EU and that they, and everyone else, now needs to ensure that we all achieve what is possible to ensure good lives for all of us.
What is it you imagine us 'sulking' remainers to use your conciliatory language are doing to cause problems? Getting jobs in Parliament & crossing out 'Leave' on white papers? Writing to Juncker cancelling article 50? Replacing it with article 51? Good grief man,listen to yourself.But it's still only that small %, not all those others that voted to remain in the EU. Despite their initial disappointment, the bulk recognise that the whole country is leaving the EU and that they, and everyone else, now needs to ensure that we all achieve what is possible to ensure good lives for all of us.
Coolbanana said:
SA? I go back nearly every year. I have a home in Kruger National Park ?
My Family lives in Durban, as do many friends. They are doing very, very well. It is far from all doom and gloom there.
Sure, it has serious problems but it is also a stunning country and a good businessperson can enjoy a great life.
But I am very happy here in The Algarve, thanks. 300 days of Sun each year, easy access to the rest of Europe.
And to answer JSF, correct, I moved because regardless of the vote, I spent 17 years in the UK making plans and an income from the good, British folk to afford my eventual move to somewhere I prefer to be.
I still have a company in the UK that I had intended to let go but it involves very little effort on my part and has seen a profit jump...my SA business is going well and is my main focus but the UK business involves Consumer Credit and just keeps getting stronger...now get this: it makes me wealthier when the UK is in its current state, my profit margin has increased since the Referendum and if I am correct as a Remainer and the UK suffers further, I will be better off.
Whereas prior to the Great Vote, my UK business was seeing a steady decline post recession.
So the losses I have incurred due to a weakened Pound when relocating abroad, have more than been compensated for by Leavers filling my coffers thanks to their Vote ?
Yet, I would have it the other way, I would rather the UK have thrived better as it was clearly doing post Recession.
So, Leavers, you are directly responsible for my UK profits being greater, I thank you, and I will continue to take your money, I have no issues with that whatsoever since I am providing a service many clearly want, but the more I make, the greater the evidence that the Vote to Leave was wrong, because it means more borrowing!
So, yeah, I am convinced Remain was the correct way Britons to have voted.
My vote would have seen my business there decline a little more, your Vote has sent it the opposite direction but it isn't a sign of a prospering UK in this case.
To the chap who wrote what did I do to make Life better before the Referendum, well, dear Boy, I was confident in the fact that post Labour and the Recession the UK was doing just fine!
Now you have caused a shift and so yes, every Leaver is now complicit in the eventual outcome of what happens next.
It is your legacy that is at stake now, are you going to be seen as being among those who weakened the UK and humiliated it on the World stage or are you going to prove you were correct after all? ?
The stakes are high for you Leavers, you have a lot to do and prove now. Best get on with it.
This honest and detailed post begs two questions;My Family lives in Durban, as do many friends. They are doing very, very well. It is far from all doom and gloom there.
Sure, it has serious problems but it is also a stunning country and a good businessperson can enjoy a great life.
But I am very happy here in The Algarve, thanks. 300 days of Sun each year, easy access to the rest of Europe.
And to answer JSF, correct, I moved because regardless of the vote, I spent 17 years in the UK making plans and an income from the good, British folk to afford my eventual move to somewhere I prefer to be.
I still have a company in the UK that I had intended to let go but it involves very little effort on my part and has seen a profit jump...my SA business is going well and is my main focus but the UK business involves Consumer Credit and just keeps getting stronger...now get this: it makes me wealthier when the UK is in its current state, my profit margin has increased since the Referendum and if I am correct as a Remainer and the UK suffers further, I will be better off.
Whereas prior to the Great Vote, my UK business was seeing a steady decline post recession.
So the losses I have incurred due to a weakened Pound when relocating abroad, have more than been compensated for by Leavers filling my coffers thanks to their Vote ?
Yet, I would have it the other way, I would rather the UK have thrived better as it was clearly doing post Recession.
So, Leavers, you are directly responsible for my UK profits being greater, I thank you, and I will continue to take your money, I have no issues with that whatsoever since I am providing a service many clearly want, but the more I make, the greater the evidence that the Vote to Leave was wrong, because it means more borrowing!
So, yeah, I am convinced Remain was the correct way Britons to have voted.
My vote would have seen my business there decline a little more, your Vote has sent it the opposite direction but it isn't a sign of a prospering UK in this case.
To the chap who wrote what did I do to make Life better before the Referendum, well, dear Boy, I was confident in the fact that post Labour and the Recession the UK was doing just fine!
Now you have caused a shift and so yes, every Leaver is now complicit in the eventual outcome of what happens next.
It is your legacy that is at stake now, are you going to be seen as being among those who weakened the UK and humiliated it on the World stage or are you going to prove you were correct after all? ?
The stakes are high for you Leavers, you have a lot to do and prove now. Best get on with it.
Why are you posting on a subject which has no relevance to you?
Why should anyone listen to your views on the subject?
Coolbanana said:
But I am very happy here in The Algarve, thanks. 300 days of Sun each year, easy access to the rest of Europe.
I've visited the Algarve for work every year since 2008, each year the place looks more dilapidated as they just don't have the money to maintain facilities properly.No doubt you could find plenty of people to exploit in that environment.
Nice weather though.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Did you miss the bit where he states he has a UK based business?
Not at all, however, it seems he has little involvement, living abroad and concentrating on his South African business. It is thriving despite Brexit...who would have thought?!
“I still have a company in the UK that I had intended to let go but it involves very little effort on my part and has seen a profit jump...my SA business is going well and is my main focus but the UK business involves Consumer Credit and just keeps getting stronger...now get this: it makes me wealthier when the UK is in its current state, my profit margin has increased since the Referendum and if I am correct as a Remainer and the UK suffers further, I will be better off.”
Eddie Strohacker said:
What is it you imagine us 'sulking' remainers to use your conciliatory language are doing to cause problems? Getting jobs in Parliament & crossing out 'Leave' on white papers? Writing to Juncker cancelling article 50? Replacing it with article 51? Good grief man,listen to yourself.
Seems I've hit a raw nerve, it wasn't intended. My comment merely reflected that it was only a small % of sulkers, I wasn't expecting them to change !Sorry if it affects you.
Robertj21a said:
Seems I've hit a raw nerve, it wasn't intended. My comment merely reflected that it was only a small % of sulkers, I wasn't expecting them to change !
Sorry if it affects you.
No, nothing hit, raw or otherwise. I'm interested in your reasoning though. Perhaps a practical example of a remainer disrupting the Brexit process you allude to?Sorry if it affects you.
loafer123 said:
Not at all, however, it seems he has little involvement, living abroad and concentrating on his South African business.
I can't understand the logic of discounting input from someone who isn't resident. What relevance is geographical location to a debate involving abstract thought & reasoned thinking? If the individual concerned is gracious enough to keep up with developments, then where is the problem?Emily Thornberry interviewed on the radio just now, 5Live.
Confirmed that she is part of the gang that is pushing for a law to stop the UK leaving without 'a' deal, i.e. a deal must exist of some kind, no walking away to WTO standards.
Does this stupid woman and her cronies not realise that you cannot negotiate a deal when your opponent knows you have to buy? Beggars belief, "Yes I will definitely by that car today from you, can you knock £5k off it? Either way I am buying it"
She also confirmed she wanted to be Foreign Secretary in any future Corbyn Government...
Confirmed that she is part of the gang that is pushing for a law to stop the UK leaving without 'a' deal, i.e. a deal must exist of some kind, no walking away to WTO standards.
Does this stupid woman and her cronies not realise that you cannot negotiate a deal when your opponent knows you have to buy? Beggars belief, "Yes I will definitely by that car today from you, can you knock £5k off it? Either way I am buying it"
She also confirmed she wanted to be Foreign Secretary in any future Corbyn Government...
Eddie Strohacker said:
loafer123 said:
Not at all, however, it seems he has little involvement, living abroad and concentrating on his South African business.
I can't understand the logic of discounting input from someone who isn't resident. What relevance is geographical location to a debate involving abstract thought & reasoned thinking? If the individual concerned is gracious enough to keep up with developments, then where is the problem?In the same way, Coolbanana’s views on Brexit are largely irrelevant because he is an outsider looking in on something he has little connection with and no day to day involvement in.
If you can’t see the logic of that, I am surprised.
loafer123 said:
My opinion on Donald Trump is largely irrelevant to Americans, no matter how well informed I am about US politics.
In the same way, Coolbanana’s views on Brexit are largely irrelevant because he is an outsider looking in on something he has little connection with and no day to day involvement in.
If you can’t see the logic of that, I am surprised.
An outsider? He was born here and has a UK passport.In the same way, Coolbanana’s views on Brexit are largely irrelevant because he is an outsider looking in on something he has little connection with and no day to day involvement in.
If you can’t see the logic of that, I am surprised.
Why should't he have an opinion?
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