How do we think EU negotiations will go?

[ORD]

sidicks said:

ORD said:

What benefits? Serious question. I'm yet to hear anything credible.

Anyone who believes there are no such benefits has zero credibility whatsoever.
Whether you believe those obvious benefits outweigh the disadvantages depends on a number of factors which will have different priorities for different people.

Give me the benefits again, then. I am sorry if I have been slow to pick up on them.

[Tryke3]

Sway said:

Then you've pretty much ignored a large quantity of posts...

Which isn't a surprise, as it's painfully obvious to those posting about specific opportunities - the silence and lack of response is deafening.

Meanwhile, how credible exactly do you think you come across as, based upon the majority of your posts claiming armageddon, yet providing only the flimsiest of rationales for that view?

Name one bebefit that is a known fact, ill make it easy for you... possibly immigration. I will be very susrprised if the EU allow concession on that anyway, so basically fk all benefits unless you think Singapore is something we should aspire to in this country

Truth is all brexiteers are dinasaurs in world that makes no sense to them, religion has no place in the 2017 so if you believe in fairies you really need your head examined

Btw i will bet £100 on having a second referendum in the next 24 months

And i will bet Jeremy Corbyn will be PM at next elections

Happy with that outcome ?

[ORD]

As things stand, Corbyn is inevitable.

Which means that all Brexit will achieve is allowing Labour to nationalise various industries and drive the country into the ground.

[mx5nut]

ORD said:

Give me the benefits again, then. I am sorry if I have been slow to pick up on them.

Nobody knows, OK? But if a single Remoaner talks the county down, there won't be any. Why can't you just believe in Britain and wish really hard like the rest of us?

[mx5nut]

ORD said:

As things stand, Corbyn is inevitable.

This will be the legacy of Brexit. Ironic, really - as he's the most Euroskeptic leader of a major party.

Luckily, Brexiteers will be cheering on the streets if he's elected - they love a bit of democracy

[Sway]

Tryke3 said:

Sway said:

Then you've pretty much ignored a large quantity of posts...

Which isn't a surprise, as it's painfully obvious to those posting about specific opportunities - the silence and lack of response is deafening.

Meanwhile, how credible exactly do you think you come across as, based upon the majority of your posts claiming armageddon, yet providing only the flimsiest of rationales for that view?

Name one bebefit that is a known fact, ill make it easy for you... possibly immigration. I will be very susrprised if the EU allow concession on that anyway, so basically fk all benefits unless you think Singapore is something we should aspire to in this country

Truth is all brexiteers are dinasaurs in world that makes no sense to them, religion has no place in the 2017 so if you believe in fairies you really need your head examined

Btw i will bet £100 on having a second referendum in the next 24 months

And i will bet Jeremy Corbyn will be PM at next elections

Happy with that outcome ?

Known fact - upon leaving the customs union, we can set the tariff rates to suit our economy and consumers.

Just moving to WTO average rates means a drop in the average cost of living of around 10%. Exactly what the rates we set will be is unknown currently, but the fact is that we will be able to set them - which is a very powerful ability.

Secondly, once we have left we are not on the hook (at the very least through the calculations for the membership fees) for bailing out the Eurozone once the over €1Tn Target2 imbalances get unwound. The very fact th legislation was specifically drawn up to create these off balance sheet fiscal transfers accruing no interest and artificially propping up both the Euro and the southern European states is criminally negligent.

Happy to take both those bets - nominate a charity of your choice? Mine would be the RNLI.

[sidicks]

Tryke3 said:

Name one bebefit that is a known fact, ill make it easy for you... possibly immigration. I will be very susrprised if the EU allow concession on that anyway, so basically fk all benefits unless you think Singapore is something we should aspire to in this country

Truth is all brexiteers are dinasaurs in world that makes no sense to them, religion has no place in the 2017 so if you believe in fairies you really need your head examined

Btw i will bet £100 on having a second referendum in the next 24 months

And i will bet Jeremy Corbyn will be PM at next elections

Happy with that outcome ?

the ‘truth is ‘ you haven’t the remotest idea what you are talking about. On just about anything.

[JagLover]

mx5nut said:

This will be the legacy of Brexit. Ironic, really - as he's the most Euroskeptic leader of a major party.

Luckily, Brexiteers will be cheering on the streets if he's elected - they love a bit of democracy

If that is the will of the people then he will form the next government. He can then be removed at the next election, as 6th form socialism meets the cold light of reality.

That is democracy and I far more in favour of that, than rule by the EU commission.

[mx5nut]

JagLover said:

6th form socialism meets the cold light of reality.

I hope there will be none of that talking the country down if he wins. We all need to pull together to make the best of his leadership.

[ORD]

Still waiting for the benefits to be explained.

[sidicks]

ORD said:

Still waiting for the benefits to be explained.

There are numerous threads with numerous discussions over 2 years. If you’ve not managed to understand them by now, I’m not sure you ever well.

Still, at least the EU provides us with ‘100s of billions’ of value every year?!

[Tuna]

mx5nut said:

I hope there will be none of that talking the country down if he wins. We all need to pull together to make the best of his leadership.

Do you have any points of your own to make, or is your entire argument based on ironically repeating a cliched impersonation of a 'Brexiteer'?

Unlike ORD, I seriously doubt Corbyn will get into government. If he does, I'll do the same as I've done with the current lot - make a case against policies that I disagree with, accept ones I agree with. What I won't be doing is organising snowflake protests to 'rethink democracy' - it's intellectually dishonest and a crude form of rabble rousing.

[ORD]

sidicks said:

ORD said:

Still waiting for the benefits to be explained.

There are numerous threads with numerous discussions over 2 years. If you’ve not managed to understand them by now, I’m not sure you ever well.

Still, at least the EU provides us with ‘100s of billions’ of value every year?!

Should be really easy to summarise some of the benefits, then. It wont take long. Any? Any at all?

Give me 3.

[Digga]

ORD said:

Should be really easy to summarise some of the benefits, then. It wont take long. Any? Any at all?

Give me 3.

1. Greater control over borders.
2. Fewer layers of politicians to pay for and be answerable to (although I always thought politicians were supposed to be answerable to the electorate, but it never quite works out that way).
3. Reduced risk of being dragging into/asked to fund future Euro-based catastrophe

We can still be European, still trade, still play nice and be friendly with the EU, but we're just not in it. You know, like Switzerland.

[mx5nut]

Tuna said:

If he does, I'll do the same as I've done with the current lot - make a case against policies that I disagree with, accept ones I agree with. What I won't be doing is organising snowflake protests to 'rethink democracy' - it's intellectually dishonest and a crude form of rabble rousing.

Great - that's democracy in action.

I'll continue to make a case against a policy (Brexit) that I disagree with, and campaign to get the outcome changed - that's democracy.

Tuna said:

snowflake

I think I just won Brexiteer buzzword bingo

[KrissKross]

ORD said:

'The point of Brexit is trade'. Now I've heard it all. We are so concerned about increasing trade that we want to leave the biggest free trade area in the World.

I am almost certain that Brexit is about at least the following things vastly more than it is about increasing trade:

(1) Reducing some form of immigration from somewhere (not sure where).

(2) 'Control of our borders' (see also (1))

(3) Sov'runty!

(4) Bendy bananas (or any other totally invented EU scare story)

(5) Boris' career plans.

(6) Rank nationalism of the old-fashioned kind (see also (1))

(7) Something about foreigners (see also (1))

Some people had very sensible reasons for voting Leave. But it is not a big proportion.

TRADE

Trade is carried out between companies and consumers.

Get rid of all Politicians, All the EU staff, and most Solicitors and do you know what, the world would still carry on fine, and probably a lot better!

The people who's job it clearly is to just make stuff are constantly scaring people, not because its true but its because their own "non jobs" are on the line, even at the highest of levels (experts as you would call them).

[Eddie Strohacker]

Digga said:

We can still be European, still trade, still play nice and be friendly with the EU, but we're just not in it. You know, like Switzerland.

Ooh, free movement, limited SM access, EU regulations on the statute books & membership subs. Lovely jubbly.

[Funkycoldribena]

mx5nut said:

Tuna said:

If he does, I'll do the same as I've done with the current lot - make a case against policies that I disagree with, accept ones I agree with. What I won't be doing is organising snowflake protests to 'rethink democracy' - it's intellectually dishonest and a crude form of rabble rousing.

Great - that's democracy in action.

I'll continue to make a case against a policy (Brexit) that I disagree with, and campaign to get the outcome changed - that's democracy.

Tuna said:

snowflake

I think I just won Brexiteer buzzword bingo

Where does this unfaltering worship of the EU come from?
What or who influenced you so much?

[ORD]

Digga said:

1. Greater control over borders.
2. Fewer layers of politicians to pay for and be answerable to (although I always thought politicians were supposed to be answerable to the electorate, but it never quite works out that way).
3. Reduced risk of being dragging into/asked to fund future Euro-based catastrophe

We can still be European, still trade, still play nice and be friendly with the EU, but we're just not in it. You know, like Switzerland.

So, in summary:

(1) Immigration (the one thing posters on here insist was not an issue for them).

(2) Save a few quid on EU politicians.

(3) A probably fair point about uncoupling slightly, but not a huge reduction in risk. If the EU goes under, we are going down too.

Does all that justify a huge reduction in GDP, increase in tax, etc? I really dont see it. I am sorry, but I dont think most of the reasons can be genuine. I think it is almost all about immigration and/or some vague 'control" point that I dont entirely understand (see the poster above who appears to be an anarchist).

[mx5nut]

Digga said:

1. Greater control over borders.
2. Fewer layers of politicians to pay for and be answerable to (although I always thought politicians were supposed to be answerable to the electorate, but it never quite works out that way).
3. Reduced risk of being dragging into/asked to fund future Euro-based catastrophe

We can still be European, still trade, still play nice and be friendly with the EU, but we're just not in it. You know, like Switzerland.

So of the three best arguments in favour...

One is something we already have (arguably greater than Switzerland. We certainly have more of a say over it rather than having rules imposed on us). The Brexiteer consensus in this thread is that we will not be implementing any extra control over our land border with the EU than we did before.

Two is possibly a benefit - possibly a negative. It may be beneficial to have some those extra layers to reign in the more mad policies from the likes of Corbyn.

Three is pure scaremongering. But it would be mad to think that any "Euro based catastrophe" would not affect us either way. We'll just not be eligible for any assistance from the rest of the EU if it does.

Well, I'm convinced!