How do we think EU negotiations will go?

[Funkycoldribena]

KrissKross said:

TRADE

Trade is carried out between companies and consumers.

Get rid of all Politicians, All the EU staff, and most Solicitors and do you know what, the world would still carry on fine, and probably a lot better!

The people who's job it clearly is to just make stuff are constantly scaring people, not because its true but its because their own "non jobs" are on the line, even at the highest of levels (experts as you would call them).

Around 50 thousand EU staff.
Absolutely bonkers.

[anonymous-user]

ORD said:

Digga said:

1. Greater control over borders.
2. Fewer layers of politicians to pay for and be answerable to (although I always thought politicians were supposed to be answerable to the electorate, but it never quite works out that way).
3. Reduced risk of being dragging into/asked to fund future Euro-based catastrophe

We can still be European, still trade, still play nice and be friendly with the EU, but we're just not in it. You know, like Switzerland.

So, in summary:

(1) Immigration (the one thing posters on here insist was not an issue for them).

(2) Save a few quid on EU politicians.

(3) A probably fair point about uncoupling slightly, but not a huge reduction in risk. If the EU goes under, we are going down too.

Does all that justify a huge reduction in GDP, increase in tax, etc? I really dont see it. I am sorry, but I dont think most of the reasons can be genuine. I think it is almost all about immigration and/or some vague 'control" point that I dont entirely understand (see the poster above who appears to be an anarchist).

But if point 3 means EU-based, then it's just a variant of point 2 (or point 2 is a variant of point 3; either way the point is not paying money to the EU, however it chooses to spend it).

I thought Digga's point 3 might be Euro (the currency) based catastrophe. In which case if we are post Brexit to be the global player that Brexiteers think we will be, I would have thought our London banks will be no less exposed to Euro-based catastrophe than they are now.

Either way, he's still short of a third point

[TTwiggy]

Funkycoldribena said:

Where does this unfaltering worship of the EU come from?
What or who influenced you so much?

I realise you love repeating this trope, but surely you must realise that being anti-Brexit does not have to equate to any love of the EU.

I voted remain for the sake of this country, not for the sake of the EU.

[ORD]

A Guardian article in which some inconsistent and incoherent benefits are suggested. Is this really the level of analysis?!

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan...

[alfie2244]

Funkycoldribena said:

Around 50 thousand EU staff.
Absolutely bonkers.

And a not very cheap upping of sticks to a 2nd lot of posh offices in Strasbourg on a regular basis.

[mx5nut]

Funkycoldribena said:

Where does this unfaltering worship of the EU come from?
What or who influenced you so much?

No worship here. The EU is far from perfect. The UK outside of the EU is likely to be significantly further from perfect.

It's the lesser of two evils by far.

Who caused such hatred of it for you that you're willing to sacrifice the prosperity of your own country to have a brief feeling of getting one over on your neighbours?

Edited by mx5nut on Wednesday 18th October 10:32

[ORD]

alfie2244 said:

Funkycoldribena said:

Around 50 thousand EU staff.
Absolutely bonkers.

And a not very cheap upping of sticks to a 2nd lot of posh offices in Strasbourg on a regular basis.

All valid points. But there are big and small points. A few million quid a year is almost literally irrelevant to a discussion over the UK's economy.

[Funkycoldribena]

TTwiggy said:

I realise you love repeating this trope, but surely you must realise that being anti-Brexit does not have to equate to any love of the EU.

I voted remain for the sake of this country, not for the sake of the EU.

You've fallen for the scare stories then,you'd think you would have learned after the first round didn't come true.

[mx5nut]

pgh said:

Can we discuss the negotiations instead?

We'd have won them by now if there were no Remoaners posting on a car forum

[stupidbutkeen]

ORD said:

All valid points. But there are big and small points. A few million quid a year is almost literally irrelevant to a discussion over the UK's economy.

Diane Abbott would have us believe it would pay for around 10,000 new police.

[TTwiggy]

Funkycoldribena said:

You've fallen for the scare stories then,you'd think you would have learned after the first round didn't come true.

I've fallen for nothing and it's rather insulting of you to suggest so. I weighed up the costs and benefits and decided that against a background of continuing global financial insecurity and with the UK starting to show genuine growth post the 2008 recession it was pragmatic to maintain the status quo.

Ukip et al would have continued to campaign for us to leave, and it's possible that somewhere down the line (5,10 years?) I might have felt differently.

[mx5nut]

Funkycoldribena said:

You've fallen for the scare stories then,you'd think you would have learned after the first round didn't come true.

They're happening right now. The only thing holding off the worst of it is the hope that we might be able to turn things around now that the will of the people has shifted.

[sidicks]

mx5nut said:

No worship here. The EU is far from perfect. The UK outside of the EU is likely to be significantly further from perfect.

It's the lesser of two evils by far.

Who caused such hatred of it for you that you're willing to sacrifice the prosperity of your own country to have a brief feeling of getting one over on your neighbours?

What a stupid statement.

[Funkycoldribena]

mx5nut said:

No worship here. The EU is far from perfect. The UK outside of the EU is likely to be significantly further from perfect.

It's the lesser of two evils by far.

Who caused such hatred of it for you that you're willing to sacrifice the prosperity of your own country to have a brief feeling of getting one over on your neighbours?

Edited by mx5nut on Wednesday 18th October 10:32

I have no feelings of getting 'one over',where that comes from I don't know.
As for sacrificing prosperity, how the hell do you know that? Do you have a crystal ball?
You have no clue in reality, pure guessing.

[Not-The-Messiah]

mx5nut said:

Funkycoldribena said:

Where does this unfaltering worship of the EU come from?
What or who influenced you so much?

No worship here. The EU is far from perfect. The UK outside of the EU is likely to be significantly further from perfect.

It's the lesser of two evils by far.

Who caused such hatred of it for you that you're willing to sacrifice the prosperity of your own country to have a brief feeling of getting one over on your neighbours?

Edited by mx5nut on Wednesday 18th October 10:32

You sound like the slaves that didn't want to be free because they had a roof over their heads and a few meals everyday.
You don't like the situation as it is and know it's not going to change but are to cowardly to take a risk.

[mx5nut]

Funkycoldribena said:

As for sacrificing prosperity, how the hell do you know that? Do you have a crystal ball?

I didn't vote Leave, because I'm not sick of experts.

I listen to them.

[amusingduck]

mx5nut said:

Funkycoldribena said:

You've fallen for the scare stories then,you'd think you would have learned after the first round didn't come true.

They're happening right now. The only thing holding off the worst of it is the hope that we might be able to turn things around now that the will of the people has shifted.

"now that the will of the people has shifted"

[citation needed]

[mx5nut]

Not-The-Messiah said:

You don't like the situation as it is and know it's not going to change but are to cowardly to take a risk.

A risk needs to have some potential benefits to be worth it.

As the last few pages of this thread have shown, the best benefits that our resident Brexiteers can think up take seconds to tear down at best, and are contradicted by themselves at worst (all that control over the borders while still keeping an open border).

[alfie2244]

ORD said:

alfie2244 said:

Funkycoldribena said:

Around 50 thousand EU staff.
Absolutely bonkers.

And a not very cheap upping of sticks to a 2nd lot of posh offices in Strasbourg on a regular basis.

All valid points. But there are big and small points. A few million quid a year is almost literally irrelevant to a discussion over the UK's economy.

Added to the millions defrauded? EU value added tax fraud alone is estimated to cost the EU €50bn annually and Europol, the EU crime agency, estimates the figure is double that..

https://www.ft.com/content/a6cdc2d4-a8bc-11e7-ab55...

[Not-The-Messiah]

mx5nut said:

Funkycoldribena said:

You've fallen for the scare stories then,you'd think you would have learned after the first round didn't come true.

They're happening right now. The only thing holding off the worst of it is the hope that we might be able to turn things around now that the will of the people has shifted.

I wonder if they have factored in the political and social st storm that would be created from such a decision, probably not.