How do we think EU negotiations will go?
Discussion
mx5nut said:
sidicks said:
No idea why you’re sticking with this, Eddie has read the BBC website so he’s clearly fully informed on this topic! 
Looks like we've reached peak Brexiteer - talking down our national broadcaster as somehow being biased for reporting the facts.Of course, unless you're an expert on Target2 inter-central bank reconciliations, the current imbalances and the available mechanisms to resolve them? Or indeed the options we have whilst in the EU to mitigate the impacts, and how they compare to the available options as a nation outside the EU?
Tuna said:
Heh, you go away for a day and ten pages later...
As I was bored, I did a quick count up over those last ten pages.
Lest anyone think that it's the same three people going round and round in circles, we've seen fifty different posters in the last day or so.
Top Poster award goes to Eddie (19 posts), closely followed by:
jsf
SantaBarbara
mx5nut
ORD
TTwiggy
Funkycoldribena
Mr T
Which (by my crude measure) means we have 5 regular remain supporters and 3 leave supporters talking the most, with most of the remaining posters only posting a handful of times. Just so you don't think the numbers are skewed, both //ajd and I have been quiet for the last day or so.
In terms of where we get our news from, the following media outlets were cited as proof of something or other:
Today (2)
The Times (1)
BBC (2)
Guardian (2)
Huffington Post (1)
Daily Mail (1)
Surprisingly the Independent didn't get cited for a change - but //ajd was not posting, that explains the absence.
In terms of debate, there were around ten incidents of a poster outright calling another post 'silly' or 'nonsense' or similar dismissive terms.
There were twelve incidents where posters referring to the other side with dismissive words ('Remoaner, Brexiteer etc) - eleven of them were jibes at Leave voters ('Brexiteer buffoons') and one was at Remain voters ('Remoaners').
There were a tiny handful of incidents where the poster got sweary or used aggressive language - roughly evenly divided. On the other hand there were twice as many cases where posters claimed the other side was 'angry', 'upset' or 'frustrated' - all of them accusations by Remain supporters.
In 100 posts there were around 17 that included direct insults aimed at someone else.
At that point my curry arrived and I stopped counting.
Lovely stuff.As I was bored, I did a quick count up over those last ten pages.
Lest anyone think that it's the same three people going round and round in circles, we've seen fifty different posters in the last day or so.
Top Poster award goes to Eddie (19 posts), closely followed by:
jsf
SantaBarbara
mx5nut
ORD
TTwiggy
Funkycoldribena
Mr T
Which (by my crude measure) means we have 5 regular remain supporters and 3 leave supporters talking the most, with most of the remaining posters only posting a handful of times. Just so you don't think the numbers are skewed, both //ajd and I have been quiet for the last day or so.
In terms of where we get our news from, the following media outlets were cited as proof of something or other:
Today (2)
The Times (1)
BBC (2)
Guardian (2)
Huffington Post (1)
Daily Mail (1)
Surprisingly the Independent didn't get cited for a change - but //ajd was not posting, that explains the absence.
In terms of debate, there were around ten incidents of a poster outright calling another post 'silly' or 'nonsense' or similar dismissive terms.
There were twelve incidents where posters referring to the other side with dismissive words ('Remoaner, Brexiteer etc) - eleven of them were jibes at Leave voters ('Brexiteer buffoons') and one was at Remain voters ('Remoaners').
There were a tiny handful of incidents where the poster got sweary or used aggressive language - roughly evenly divided. On the other hand there were twice as many cases where posters claimed the other side was 'angry', 'upset' or 'frustrated' - all of them accusations by Remain supporters.
In 100 posts there were around 17 that included direct insults aimed at someone else.
At that point my curry arrived and I stopped counting.
Edited by Tuna on Wednesday 18th October 08:50
My excuse on spending time on here is I'm currently off work recovering from an injury and bored out of my box.
God knows how others manage to spend so much time if they are at work.
Funkycoldribena said:
KrissKross said:
TRADE
Trade is carried out between companies and consumers.
Get rid of all Politicians, All the EU staff, and most Solicitors and do you know what, the world would still carry on fine, and probably a lot better!
The people who's job it clearly is to just make stuff are constantly scaring people, not because its true but its because their own "non jobs" are on the line, even at the highest of levels (experts as you would call them).
Around 50 thousand EU staff.Trade is carried out between companies and consumers.
Get rid of all Politicians, All the EU staff, and most Solicitors and do you know what, the world would still carry on fine, and probably a lot better!
The people who's job it clearly is to just make stuff are constantly scaring people, not because its true but its because their own "non jobs" are on the line, even at the highest of levels (experts as you would call them).
Absolutely bonkers.
KrissKross said:
mx5nut said:
KrissKross said:
Have you seen some of the dangerous crap you can buy from China on eBay
Utter rubbish. China is outside of the EU - we're not allowed to trade with them until we leave. Take back control!Digga said:
Mrr T said:
Digga said:
The EU's mismanagement of their greater borders has also exposed us to various hazards.
How did they miss manage it? The external borders of the EU are not a EU competency.Irregular immigration is not an EU matter.
Mrs M comments on immigration where not the comments of the EU they were her comments many other EU leaders were horrified.
The EU cannot plan or police irregular immigration in the EU because they have no powers.
No counties are in dispute with the EU over irregular immigration. There is a dispute amongst the Schengen signatories by a request from German to move irregular immigrants to other Schengen countries. However, since the German treaty obligations on irregular immigration will override the Schengen agreement its highly unlikely to happen.
One of leave teams failing is to constantly blame the EU for things the EU are not responsible for.
Edited by Mrr T on Wednesday 18th October 14:10
Sway said:
If it's so obviously untrue, then a quote will be easy to find, after all "target2" is a very specific search term...
You've still not answered my question - ignoring what we could choose to do to help other nations in difficulty, what economic levers to help US mitigate the effects on US, are off the table as a non-EU nation? What levers are off the table as an EU nation?
The former list is exceptionally short, the latter really quite long...
Target 2 is irrelevant as a search term for the purposes of this discussion. Eurozone bail out is & that's all over the internet if you care to look. I kind of dig your technocratic inferences along the lines of I'm an expert in all this, in lieu of an actual factual set of judgements and in passing note that Gregg sees that too, but the fact remains we'd have had no liability for their problems & moreover none in terms of wider European money I.e. the budget, had we remained.You've still not answered my question - ignoring what we could choose to do to help other nations in difficulty, what economic levers to help US mitigate the effects on US, are off the table as a non-EU nation? What levers are off the table as an EU nation?
The former list is exceptionally short, the latter really quite long...
Would we have been shafted in the event of a European banking crisis? Yes, but not in the way you insist. Your problem is your starting premise is rooted in a fervent anti EU sentiment & it's f
king with your judgment. On the bright side, you'll always have your twitchy useful idiot, Sid to back you up with his rofls & haha it's BBC drive by posts, so that's nice at least.Eddie Strohacker said:
Sway said:
If it's so obviously untrue, then a quote will be easy to find, after all "target2" is a very specific search term...
You've still not answered my question - ignoring what we could choose to do to help other nations in difficulty, what economic levers to help US mitigate the effects on US, are off the table as a non-EU nation? What levers are off the table as an EU nation?
The former list is exceptionally short, the latter really quite long...
Target 2 is irrelevant as a search term for the purposes of this discussion. Eurozone bail out is & that's all over the internet if you care to look. I kind of dig your technocratic inferences along the lines of I'm an expert in all this, in lieu of an actual factual set of judgements and in passing note that Gregg sees that too, but the fact remains we'd have had no liability for their problems & moreover none in terms of wider European money I.e. the budget, had we remained.You've still not answered my question - ignoring what we could choose to do to help other nations in difficulty, what economic levers to help US mitigate the effects on US, are off the table as a non-EU nation? What levers are off the table as an EU nation?
The former list is exceptionally short, the latter really quite long...
Would we have been shafted in the event of a European banking crisis? Yes, but not in the way you insist. Your problem is your starting premise is rooted in a fervent anti EU sentiment & it's f
king with your judgment. On the bright side, you'll always have your twitchy useful idiot, Sid to back you up with his rofls & haha it's BBC drive by posts, so that's nice at least.As per the convo with Gregg, the statements of an EU President that's it's a worthless document mitigate your claim that we were guaranteed to be absolved of the liability.
Lastly, have you actually read the post you've quoted? My basis for leaving due to Target2 is that yes, we'll be hit either way, the whole globe will be. My point is that outside we are far freer to implement mitigating efforts than if we remain in - which for the third time you haven't presented anything to refute.
I haven't made any technocratic inferences of expertise. MrrrT did, then realised he didn't know the detail of why the imbalances exist. I also haven't blamed the BBC for anything.
You're also assuming heavily on my anti-EU Base - my initial posts on this topic were pro-EU, nearly three years ago.
London424 said:
mx5nut said:
EU Withdrawal Bill 'won't be debated this month'
It's a good thing we're not on a deadline for any of this, isn't it?
Why are you in such a rush?It's a good thing we're not on a deadline for any of this, isn't it?
It's a 2 year period where we won't know the final details until the very last minute (if other EU negotiations are the precedent).
In other news I'm not sure if this was posted but Germany are outlining their position.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-16...
MIFID II implementation is looking on very shaky ground in terms of being implemented on time in most EU countries right now. This could be fun come January. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-18...
Mrr T said:
Digga said:
Mrr T said:
Digga said:
The EU's mismanagement of their greater borders has also exposed us to various hazards.
How did they miss manage it? The external borders of the EU are not a EU competency.2.) Irregular immigration is not an EU matter.
3.) Mrs M comments on immigration where not the comments of the EU they were her comments many other EU leaders were horrified.
The EU cannot plan or police irregular immigration in the EU because they have no powers.
4.) No counties are in dispute with the EU over irregular immigration. There is a dispute amongst the Schengen signatories by a request from German to move irregular immigrants to other Schengen countries. However, since the German treaty obligations on irregular immigration will override the Schengen agreement its highly unlikely to happen.
One of leave teams failing is to constantly blame the EU for things the EU are not responsible for.
Edited by Mrr T on Wednesday 18th October 14:10
2. Irregular immigration into the EU is our problem as soon as they arrived in the EU and decide the UK is their destination of choice. It's very hard for us to prevent this under the current system.
3. You and I both know Merkel often acts and and is taken as being a de-facto spokesperson for the EU.
4. I beg to differ and think you're splitting hairs -whether direct immigration or the re-location of refugees is a moot point - there is a dispute:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/06/eu-cour...
Eddie Strohacker said:
Target 2 is irrelevant as a search term for the purposes of this discussion. Eurozone bail out is & that's all over the internet if you care to look. I kind of dig your technocratic inferences along the lines of I'm an expert in all this, in lieu of an actual factual set of judgements and in passing note that Gregg sees that too, but the fact remains we'd have had no liability for their problems & moreover none in terms of wider European money I.e. the budget, had we remained.
Would we have been shafted in the event of a European banking crisis? Yes, but not in the way you insist. Your problem is your starting premise is rooted in a fervent anti EU sentiment & it's fking with your judgment. On the bright side, you'll always have your twitchy useful idiot, Sid to back you up with his rofls & haha it's BBC drive by posts, so that's nice at least.
More insults but the usual lack of substance.Would we have been shafted in the event of a European banking crisis? Yes, but not in the way you insist. Your problem is your starting premise is rooted in a fervent anti EU sentiment & it's f
king with your judgment. On the bright side, you'll always have your twitchy useful idiot, Sid to back you up with his rofls & haha it's BBC drive by posts, so that's nice at least.You continue to disregard valid comments / opinions with no evidence whatsoever. It’s really pathetic and suggests you are simply here to troll rather than debate.
Edited by sidicks on Wednesday 18th October 14:27
Mrr T said:
One of leave teams failing is to constantly blame the EU for things the EU are not responsible for.
So... what you are saying is when the EU falls apart we can start holding the people we vote for (more) accountable for our concerns and problems. Wouldn't that be nice, democracy and all that jazz.Sway said:
As per the convo with Gregg, the statements of an EU President that's it's a worthless document mitigate your claim that we were guaranteed to be absolved of the liability.
I assume this is what you're referring to: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/davi...Said by Shulz on 16 Feb prior to the deal.
This is what select EU national leaders were saying on 16 Feb pre-deal (generally pro Cameron's position): http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/davi...
The deal was reached on 18-19 Feb and according to the EU Council's website was "a legally binding and irreversible decision by all 28 leaders": http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/uk/2016...
So perhaps that piece of paper had some value after all.
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