How do we think EU negotiations will go?
Discussion
Greg66 said:
Well according to the front page of today’s Times, our chief negotiator [sic], DD, has instructed his “team” (that must be quite something to behold) to examine a no deal exit, which Davis will talk up on Hallowe’en.
Yes, that’s right. On the night of horrors, our chief negotiator will be telling us how wonderful things will be when he fails in his single task.
We have a bunch of third rate journeymen Conservative MPs who were never any good in the first place squeezing the balls of the party as hard as they can, and a f
king rag and bone man with a hardcore Marxist sidekick waiting in the wings to take over. We have a PM pleading with EU leaders to help her out and the same EU leaders taking pity - and that is the right word - on a British PM because her domestic position is so precarious. By comparison, Major’s battle with his rebels in the 1990s look about as rocky as the immediate aftermath of the Falklands War was for Thatcher.
There is always, in any negotiation, a point usually in the first third of the process at which the parties appear almost completely irreconcilable. Then, with both of them having to contemplate the abyss of the negotiation failing, they recoil and start to move closer together. One can only hope that that is where we are right now. Because the alternative is deeply unpalatable.
We are appearing increasingly desperate.Yes, that’s right. On the night of horrors, our chief negotiator will be telling us how wonderful things will be when he fails in his single task.
We have a bunch of third rate journeymen Conservative MPs who were never any good in the first place squeezing the balls of the party as hard as they can, and a f
king rag and bone man with a hardcore Marxist sidekick waiting in the wings to take over. We have a PM pleading with EU leaders to help her out and the same EU leaders taking pity - and that is the right word - on a British PM because her domestic position is so precarious. By comparison, Major’s battle with his rebels in the 1990s look about as rocky as the immediate aftermath of the Falklands War was for Thatcher. There is always, in any negotiation, a point usually in the first third of the process at which the parties appear almost completely irreconcilable. Then, with both of them having to contemplate the abyss of the negotiation failing, they recoil and start to move closer together. One can only hope that that is where we are right now. Because the alternative is deeply unpalatable.
I wonder if May's address to the EU27 last night was "I can't sell a divorce bill of £80bn to the UK parliament or public, give me something I can sell."
mx5nut said:
I see the current line of Brexiteers in this thread is roughly equivalent to "No deal will be absolutely fine because we'll agree on a deal"
.
When it comes to air travel that does seem to be a reasonable proposition and is hysteria to pretend otherwise..
I think the chances of a free trade deal are getting slimmer but maintain it is a hysterical scare story that we will not be able to fly into the EU post brexit. This is presumably going to be fine with places like Spain, Portugal and Greece which have massive British tourism?.
How do you propose British tourists get there if we have no access to each other's airspace?
Merkel said:
From my point of view, there are absolutely no signs that we can’t succeed. If we are all clear in our minds, I have absolutely no doubt that we can reach a good result. What I find it hard to understand, when we need a result by March 2019, is why people are already talking in October 2017 about what might happen at the end of the process. I believe, in contrast to the way things are portrayed in the British press, that things are progressing step by step. We’re in a process, and if it goes on for two or three weeks longer, or even longer, that doesn’t stop us from working hard to reach the second phase. I very clearly want an agreement, not any kind of unpredictable solution, and we’re working very hard on that.
When even the German PM is saying the British Press are talking st, you've got to pay some attention.All the people on here who've been saying "We're getting no-where", "it's impossible because of <xxxx>", or "They have no reason to let us succeed", or "They're waiting for us to ask to come back" or all the other fantasy stuff - just read those lines slowly, twice.
Germany is preparing for a "balanced and comprehensive" trade deal. Sweden and Denmark are preparing for a deal. Italy and Spain are in favour of a deal and it looks like many others are happy to see the process continue.
The posts on here that say otherwise are in complete denial. The only people who want this to fail appear to be British.
Greg66 said:
Breadvan72 said:
Without an agreement on airspace you will have to take a ferry when you want to go and talk loudly to foreigners. Access to airspace is not one of the things that can be magicked up by British pluck and determination.
Good God man, have you forgotten the Battle of`Britain?We shall boost manufacturing by building factories to make Spitfires. And then we shall go on our holidays in said Spitfires. Woe betide any Johnny Foreigner who gets in our way then. Because we’re British!
Presumably they think the British are the only people who can possibly be xenophobic or intolerant, so any anti British feeling from the EU is perfectly commendable.
Tuna said:
Merkel said:
From my point of view, there are absolutely no signs that we can’t succeed. If we are all clear in our minds, I have absolutely no doubt that we can reach a good result. What I find it hard to understand, when we need a result by March 2019, is why people are already talking in October 2017 about what might happen at the end of the process. I believe, in contrast to the way things are portrayed in the British press, that things are progressing step by step. We’re in a process, and if it goes on for two or three weeks longer, or even longer, that doesn’t stop us from working hard to reach the second phase. I very clearly want an agreement, not any kind of unpredictable solution, and we’re working very hard on that.
When even the German PM is saying the British Press are talking st, you've got to pay some attention.All the people on here who've been saying "We're getting no-where", "it's impossible because of <xxxx>", or "They have no reason to let us succeed", or "They're waiting for us to ask to come back" or all the other fantasy stuff - just read those lines slowly, twice.
Germany is preparing for a "balanced and comprehensive" trade deal. Sweden and Denmark are preparing for a deal. Italy and Spain are in favour of a deal and it looks like many others are happy to see the process continue.
The posts on here that say otherwise are in complete denial. The only people who want this to fail appear to be British.
I guess I should record there is an amendment to current thinking.
Eddie Strohacker said:
Is that so? I query this as only last week, I was being told by many prominent Brexiteers here that being a foreigner automatically disqualifies one from attaining a comprehensive understanding of the UK's political narrative. This was I believe in response to a spat over Cool Banana's South African heritage & their fitness to comment on Brexit.
I guess I should record there is an amendment to current thinking.
Wow, that's a stretch even by your standards, Eddie. Care to comment on the point being made, and what Merkel actually said? Or are you going to studiously ignore it and refer to some other *completely irrelevant* discussion? Obviously that's a rhetorical question - we can see what you've done I guess I should record there is an amendment to current thinking.
PurpleMoonlight said:
We are appearing increasingly desperate.
I wonder if May's address to the EU27 last night was "I can't sell a divorce bill of £80bn to the UK parliament or public, give me something I can sell."
When I hear May giving her view on the latest discussions to the waiting press - I cringe.I wonder if May's address to the EU27 last night was "I can't sell a divorce bill of £80bn to the UK parliament or public, give me something I can sell."
She doesn't get it. All the EU are worried about at the minute is the settlement cheque and it is quite clear we're going nowhere until that is resolved.
It's 27 v 1. A ratio we have even less chance of making an impact on than we had when we were 'at the heart of the EU' lol. She should just accept this part of the battle is lost, cough up, let's get a trade agreement - and get the f
k out.At the moment all she's doing is damaging Britain, companies are making serious noises about moving out - they aren't joking either.
So, there's nothing wrong with Brexit itself, it's just that it's being fked up by Mrs May. Companies are threatening to leave because of bad Brexit, not because of Brexit. I am now getting this - everything bad that happens will be because Brexit wasn't done right. None of this will invalidate the idea that Brexit is fab.
ked up by Mrs May. Companies are threatening to leave because of bad Brexit, not because of Brexit. I am now getting this - everything bad that happens will be because Brexit wasn't done right. None of this will invalidate the idea that Brexit is fab. Breadvan72 said:
So, there's nothing wrong with Brexit itself, it's just that it's being fked up by Mrs May. Companies are threatening to leave because of bad Brexit, not because of Brexit. I am now getting this - everything bad that happens will be because Brexit wasn't done right. None of this will invalidate the idea that Brexit is fab.
Sounds highly like Marxists to me. The Theory is perfect, comrades, it just hasn't been executed properly. ked up by Mrs May. Companies are threatening to leave because of bad Brexit, not because of Brexit. I am now getting this - everything bad that happens will be because Brexit wasn't done right. None of this will invalidate the idea that Brexit is fab. Cobnapint said:
She doesn't get it. All the EU are worried about at the minute is the settlement cheque and it is quite clear we're going nowhere until that is resolved.
It's 27 v 1. A ratio we have even less chance of making an impact on than we had when we were 'at the heart of the EU' lol. She should just accept this part of the battle is lost, cough up, let's get a trade agreement - and get the fk out.
At the moment all she's doing is damaging Britain, companies are making serious noises about moving out - they aren't joking either.
We are leaving on March 2019 unless there is unanimous agreement to extend. So we are going somewhere, just likely without a trade deal It's 27 v 1. A ratio we have even less chance of making an impact on than we had when we were 'at the heart of the EU' lol. She should just accept this part of the battle is lost, cough up, let's get a trade agreement - and get the f
k out.At the moment all she's doing is damaging Britain, companies are making serious noises about moving out - they aren't joking either.
Cobnapint said:
When I hear May giving her view on the latest discussions to the waiting press - I cringe.
She doesn't get it. All the EU are worried about at the minute is the settlement cheque and it is quite clear we're going nowhere until that is resolved.
It's 27 v 1. A ratio we have even less chance of making an impact on than we had when we were 'at the heart of the EU' lol. She should just accept this part of the battle is lost, cough up, let's get a trade agreement - and get the fk out.
At the moment all she's doing is damaging Britain, companies are making serious noises about moving out - they aren't joking either.
Any sort of trade deal has to be linked to the settlement deal. Agreeing the terms of the latter before the former is nonsense.She doesn't get it. All the EU are worried about at the minute is the settlement cheque and it is quite clear we're going nowhere until that is resolved.
It's 27 v 1. A ratio we have even less chance of making an impact on than we had when we were 'at the heart of the EU' lol. She should just accept this part of the battle is lost, cough up, let's get a trade agreement - and get the f
k out.At the moment all she's doing is damaging Britain, companies are making serious noises about moving out - they aren't joking either.
Dr Jekyll said:
Once you start paying Danegeld, it's hard to get rid of the Danes.
That may be rather trailing your coat.On a wider point, the extent to which many aspects of economic life are intertwined with the EU was and is, I think, little understood by those who thought and think that leaving would be and is a simple matter. The "it's simple, let's just leave" position is still argued here, but there's no reality in that position.
Cobnapint said:
When I hear May giving her view on the latest discussions to the waiting press - I cringe.
She doesn't get it. All the EU are worried about at the minute is the settlement cheque and it is quite clear we're going nowhere until that is resolved.
It's 27 v 1. A ratio we have even less chance of making an impact on than we had when we were 'at the heart of the EU' lol. She should just accept this part of the battle is lost, cough up, let's get a trade agreement - and get the fk out.
She doesn't get it. All the EU are worried about at the minute is the settlement cheque and it is quite clear we're going nowhere until that is resolved.
It's 27 v 1. A ratio we have even less chance of making an impact on than we had when we were 'at the heart of the EU' lol. She should just accept this part of the battle is lost, cough up, let's get a trade agreement - and get the f
k out.Merkel said:
From my point of view, there are absolutely no signs that we can’t succeed. If we are all clear in our minds, I have absolutely no doubt that we can reach a good result. What I find it hard to understand, when we need a result by March 2019, is why people are already talking in October 2017 about what might happen at the end of the process. I believe, in contrast to the way things are portrayed in the British press, that things are progressing step by step. We’re in a process, and if it goes on for two or three weeks longer, or even longer, that doesn’t stop us from working hard to reach the second phase. I very clearly want an agreement, not any kind of unpredictable solution, and we’re working very hard on that.
Some people on here seem to be curiously deaf.Breadvan72 said:
So, there's nothing wrong with Brexit itself, it's just that it's being fked up by Mrs May. Companies are threatening to leave because of bad Brexit, not because of Brexit. I am now getting this - everything bad that happens will be because Brexit wasn't done right. None of this will invalidate the idea that Brexit is fab.
Whereas remainers saying that the EU is a great concept it just needs to be reformed from the inside is perfectly OK I suppose.ked up by Mrs May. Companies are threatening to leave because of bad Brexit, not because of Brexit. I am now getting this - everything bad that happens will be because Brexit wasn't done right. None of this will invalidate the idea that Brexit is fab. There is a difference of course. There is nothing intrinsic in being outside the EU that means you can't have FTAs or visit other countries. But there is something intrinsic about being in a customs union that means you can't set up trade deals or even lift tariffs.
sidicks said:
Any sort of trade deal has to be linked to the settlement deal. Agreeing the terms of the latter before the former is nonsense.
I don't agree. They are completely separate issues.Yes negotiations could be conducted in tandem, but EU have refused that so there is little we can do.
Tuna said:
Cobnapint said:
When I hear May giving her view on the latest discussions to the waiting press - I cringe.
She doesn't get it. All the EU are worried about at the minute is the settlement cheque and it is quite clear we're going nowhere until that is resolved.
It's 27 v 1. A ratio we have even less chance of making an impact on than we had when we were 'at the heart of the EU' lol. She should just accept this part of the battle is lost, cough up, let's get a trade agreement - and get the fk out.
Some people on here seem to be curiously deaf.She doesn't get it. All the EU are worried about at the minute is the settlement cheque and it is quite clear we're going nowhere until that is resolved.
It's 27 v 1. A ratio we have even less chance of making an impact on than we had when we were 'at the heart of the EU' lol. She should just accept this part of the battle is lost, cough up, let's get a trade agreement - and get the f
k out.Merkel said:
From my point of view, there are absolutely no signs that we can’t succeed. If we are all clear in our minds, I have absolutely no doubt that we can reach a good result. What I find it hard to understand, when we need a result by March 2019, is why people are already talking in October 2017 about what might happen at the end of the process. I believe, in contrast to the way things are portrayed in the British press, that things are progressing step by step. We’re in a process, and if it goes on for two or three weeks longer, or even longer, that doesn’t stop us from working hard to reach the second phase. I very clearly want an agreement, not any kind of unpredictable solution, and we’re working very hard on that.
It's a 2 year process people!
Breadvan72 said:
The "it's simple, let's just leave" position is still argued here, but there's no reality in that position.
It's simple, we are leaving. That's not the same as saying "It'll all be done by next Wednesday" - and the only people who're banging that drum seem to be people like you who're calling the result only a few months into a two year process.Merkel said:
What I find it hard to understand, when we need a result by March 2019, is why people are already talking in October 2017 about what might happen at the end of the process.
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