How do we think EU negotiations will go?

[Mrr T]

bobbylondonuk said:

I have a solution.....

1. 1 All EU citizens with NI number & 5 years of residence + UK income = permanent resident status. counter starts as of Art 50 date + 5 yrs. so last EU citizen will have PR in March 2022. Dependents are subject to same rules as non EU citizens. Or else it will be discriminatory and UK does not discriminate between EU & non EU....the EU does discriminate, but that is why we voted out.

So my wife who does not work and so does not have a UK income, my niece who is a child and does not have a Uk Income, and the person who presented evidence to the HOC committee on this issue, who’s aged and sick mother lived with them and again did not have a UK Income, none of these would be able to get Permanent Residency?

[Burwood]

Mrr T said:

bobbylondonuk said:

I have a solution.....

1. 1 All EU citizens with NI number & 5 years of residence + UK income = permanent resident status. counter starts as of Art 50 date + 5 yrs. so last EU citizen will have PR in March 2022. Dependents are subject to same rules as non EU citizens. Or else it will be discriminatory and UK does not discriminate between EU & non EU....the EU does discriminate, but that is why we voted out.

So my wife who does not work and so does not have a UK income, my niece who is a child and does not have a Uk Income, and the person who presented evidence to the HOC committee on this issue, who’s aged and sick mother lived with them and again did not have a UK Income, none of these would be able to get Permanent Residency?

Been here more than 5 years as of March 2017 then yes. If not, right to abode, is my understanding. The government are not splitting up families. What they are saying, is if you have recently arrived (less than 5 years) and are an unemployed scrounger with no other basis to stay(family) then we may tell you to hop-it

[PRTVR]

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You may be right but surely having more politicians as in the extra layer in the EU is a bad idea, more people to make things worse , do we not need less pigs in the trough.

[AC43]

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"What do we want?"

"Ridiculously simple solutions to extraordinarily complex problems!"

"When do we want it?"

"Now!!"

[KrissKross]

PurpleMoonlight said:

KrissKross said:

Absolutely, so why would any of these countries want to negotiate a deal that will make them even more worse off than they are now. Please Mrs May continue giving us free money...

The EU offers the UK less than absolutely nothing, so there is nothing to negotiate about. If anything we should be negotiating our refund.

You can't think of one thing that benefits the UK by being in the EU?

Not really, do you have an example?

[anonymous-user]

olimain said:

I was just about to post "Countdown to somebody mentioning 350m to the NHS" but I'm too late.

Well it was central to the 'take back control' hypnosis of a fair chunk of the population ...

[don'tbesilly]

Jimboka said:

olimain said:

I was just about to post "Countdown to somebody mentioning 350m to the NHS" but I'm too late.

Well it was central to the 'take back control' hypnosis of a fair chunk of the population ...

Was it?

Can you put a % of those who voted 'Leave' did so based on the 350m to the NHS banner on the bus that comes up repeatedly, and back it up with some reliable sources.

Of course you could argue that a fair chunk of the population voted remain to avoid the financial armageddon and the brexit related recession that 'project fear' promised and which never materialized.

[Robertj21a]

According to the EU, Brexit 'will blow a £8.8bn hole in EU finances'.:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40433450

[jjlynn27]

Burwood said:

Hey Tin guy, I get it. You're right and i'm wrong. I will take a guess. Is your ickle business not going to be as good after Brexit?

Bwahaha, what a tool.

[Dr Jekyll]

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Typical of remainers to argue both that we won't regain control over our own affairs, and that we will and that is bad because we Brits can't possibly be as clever as EU officials.

If I don't like our government having control over how we live I vote for a different government. If I don't like what the EU commission does I can do nothing about it. Practically the entire EU parliament wants to stop the Strasbourg shuffle but the commission wants it. So it stays.

My 'real reasons' for voting Brexit are that I want this country to be able to trade freely worldwide and that the EU is a corrupt protectionist organisation with no interest in helping citizens but merely it's own power.

[mjb1]

mjb1 said:

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What are the implications of hard brexit exactly? I mean hard facts, not merely your opinions and predictions.

oh, and I got a B grade in GCSE economics.

Still waiting for your answer to this TinRobot, wise one.

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The remain campaign was dreadful because there is no positive argument for staying in the EU (still waiting for you to actually say something positive yourself). All they could say is that leaving would be a calamity (something you've bought into hook, line and sinker it seems), and so far that seems to be wrong - stock market has surged since brexit vote, economy doing just as well as it probably would have done anyway.

[NJH]

There is nothing more insane in this world than trusting unelected officials above your own elected Politicians. If one really does think like that then you really don't deserve the vote and frankly are stting on those who gave their lives, or struggled in previous generations such that the common man could gain this right. If you don't like our politicians then do something about it, enter politics yourself or get involved with a political party or movement and make a difference. But the one thing you shouldn't do is expect to get any respect for telling people to give up on democracy.

[Deptford Draylons]

It's great to read another EU thread where those who are the pro EU types unanimously line up to say how deeply flawed it is, but stay in anyway.
Was there a single remain vote where people didn't caveat their vote by saying this and actually argue for more EU ? Quite sad Remain people couldn't even vote to stay in the second division of EU membership with much confidence.

[Tuna]

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And there, in a nutshell we have the reason why the remain campaign lost - they had the arrogance to believe that they were 'right', and that anyone who couldn't see that was an idiot.

They believed that any point made for Leave was a lie, and that their 'side' only spoke truth.

They turned slogans into lies just so they could go on and on about them - and made themselves look ridiculous in the process.

Just as much as some leavers did, they treated a complex subject as a black and white issue with a morally correct answer.

There were extremists on both sides of the argument - but I think those were in the minority *on both sides*. However, the people in the middle, those who could see that this wasn't just a 'throw the foreigners out' discussion were completely turned off by the incredibly vocal Remainers who treated it as though it was. No one likes to be patronised.

[FiF]

Tuna said:

Benign dictatorship?

Ideally a basic test establishing that you grasp the basics of trade, economics and geopolitics would be a good start.

Fail = no vote. Anyone that ticked yes to the question "DO you believe the NHS will be £350m better off if we leave the EU" would be sterilised.

Fair and reasonable I am sure you would agree and better for society all round in the long term.

Based on PH very few would be allowed a vote. Some would also be Eunuchs by now.

Being serious - when all is said and done no side is "right". No political party or ideology will improve things. One may make things worse than the other but I gave up believing in politics many years ago. All we can do is try and make things worse as slowly as possible.

We live at the dawn of idiocracy.

And there, in a nutshell we have the reason why the remain campaign lost - they had the arrogance to believe that they were 'right', and that anyone who couldn't see that was an idiot.

They believed that any point made for Leave was a lie, and that their 'side' only spoke truth.

They turned slogans into lies just so they could go on and on about them - and made themselves look ridiculous in the process.

Just as much as some leavers did, they treated a complex subject as a black and white issue with a morally correct answer.

There were extremists on both sides of the argument - but I think those were in the minority *on both sides*. However, the people in the middle, those who could see that this wasn't just a 'throw the foreigners out' discussion were completely turned off by the incredibly vocal Remainers who treated it as though it was. No one likes to be patronised.

And just to add a little something there's also clear evidence from the recent robotic input that they still haven't learnt the lessons that throwing insults just results in folks filtering out or blatantly ignoring them.

[Dr Jekyll]

Dr Jekyll said:

My 'real reasons' for voting Brexit are that I want this country to be able to trade freely worldwide and that the EU is a corrupt protectionist organisation with no interest in helping citizens but merely it's own power.

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I didn't say 'trade' I said 'trade freely'. The EU forces us to charge import tariffs on (for example) many agricultural products from outside the EU. It isn't a question of being desperate, just of recognising that being able to lower tariff barriers is a good thing.

[Burwood]

At least we get a vote on who governs us and can chuck them out if we don't like it. See the difference. You're a bit late to the thread Tin. You have every right to express your opinion. Your tone is clear. Idiots, insane.... all you've done is add sound bites. We get that you'd stay because they'll fk us over. That's a good reason to leave

[-Pete-]

FiF said:

Tuna said:

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And there, in a nutshell we have the reason why the remain campaign lost - they had the arrogance to believe that they were 'right', and that anyone who couldn't see that was an idiot. No one likes to be patronised. etc

And just to add a little something there's also clear evidence... that they still haven't learnt the lessons that throwing insults just results in folks filtering out or blatantly ignoring them.

I voted to remain, but respect the majority's decision. The minority of voters claiming the majority were wrong and stupid is absurd and insulting. You either believe in democracy, or you don't.

[jjlynn27]

Tuna said:

And there, in a nutshell we have the reason why the remain campaign lost - they had the arrogance to believe that they were 'right', and that anyone who couldn't see that was an idiot.

That's not the reason at all.

[Einion Yrth]

-Pete- said:

voted to remain, but respect the majority's decision. The minority of voters claiming the majority were wrong and stupid is absurd and insulting. You either believe in democracy, or you don't.

Indeed, thank you for the sanity.