Terrorism - how will this all end?

[Digga]

rscott said:

Some are not unique to Muslims though - alcohol is banned by other religions too (Sikhs & Mormons, for example).

Sharia law obviously shouldn't replace or override British laws, but parts of it aren't incompatible, just as parts of the Jewish courts can operate within our laws.

The key is to work with all these faiths to ensure that if any religious courts exist, they do so in an open and public manner which is compatible with existing laws.

I take it, from the first line, you are not friends with Sikhs, nor had the pleasure of attending a Sikh wedding.

However, a lot of these also apply to other groups AND there are those who are British born and bred - nominally Christian - who do not respect all of the points. It will be the same for them too - it is a clear line in the sand, in terms of political and legal precedent.

The videos of Sharia being enforced on the streets in the UK do not make comfortable viewing - mob rule only works until a bigger, more numerous mob turns up - and should be discouraged by all sides as plain wrong, just as the right to worship in any faith is protected.

[rscott]

Digga said:

rscott said:

Some are not unique to Muslims though - alcohol is banned by other religions too (Sikhs & Mormons, for example).

Sharia law obviously shouldn't replace or override British laws, but parts of it aren't incompatible, just as parts of the Jewish courts can operate within our laws.

The key is to work with all these faiths to ensure that if any religious courts exist, they do so in an open and public manner which is compatible with existing laws.

I take it, from the first line, you are not friends with Sikhs, nor had the pleasure of attending a Sikh wedding.

However, a lot of these also apply to other groups AND there are those who are British born and bred - nominally Christian - who do not respect all of the points. It will be the same for them too - it is a clear line in the sand, in terms of political and legal precedent.

The videos of Sharia being enforced on the streets in the UK do not make comfortable viewing - mob rule only works until a bigger, more numerous mob turns up - and should be discouraged by all sides as plain wrong, just as the right to worship in any faith is protected.

No, but I've been drunk under the table by a Muslim before... :-)

How often do these Sharia patrols actually happen ? The ones I've seen on YouTube were a few years ago and soon stopped once the police were involved. Obviously if they're still happening, then the police (and local mosques) need to be advising them that they're not appropriate here..

[Sam All]

Digga said:

We, the civilised, developed world will win. We are greater in intellect and number and they depend, every step, on technology we invented. They cannot win, but it will get messy.

I'd like to think that. However our fairness and our strength will be used against us in the shape of PC and such. I do not underestimate their intellect and their single mindedness, focus & sacrifice for their religion. Technology - Pakistan has nukes and no doubt there is a cosy arrangement with the KSA.

We are greater in number at present but the trend is crystal clear, because of the above, and they punch above their weight. Anyone want to bet that 10% of the UK will be Muslim by 2050? Probably sooner.

It will get messy and messier the longer we sleep walk into this. Respect for the host and their way of life.

[Sylvaforever]

Greg66 said:

BigLion said:

With yet another likely terrorist attack

Except it wasn't.

BOOM tell that to those who lost familie.

[Sam All]

rscott said:

How often do these Sharia patrols actually happen ? The ones I've seen on YouTube were a few years ago and soon stopped once the police were involved. Obviously if they're still happening, then the police (and local mosques) need to be advising them that they're not appropriate here..

rscott, are non Muslims spoken of in a derisory manner by Imams at Mosque gatherings?

[jjlynn27]

Sylvaforever said:

Greg66 said:

BigLion said:

With yet another likely terrorist attack

Except it wasn't.

BOOM tell that to those who lost familie.

Boom? Reading this and Munich thread it's as if some posters are disappointed that it wasn't isis.

With usual, rather tired, snackbars and 'religion of peace'.

[Oakey]

Sam All said:

I'd like to think that. However our fairness and our strength will be used against us in the shape of PC and such. I do not underestimate their intellect and their single mindedness, focus & sacrifice for their religion. Technology - Pakistan has nukes and no doubt there is a cosy arrangement with the KSA.

We are greater in number at present but the trend is crystal clear, because of the above, and they punch above their weight. Anyone want to bet that 10% of the UK will be Muslim by 2050? Probably sooner.

It will get messy and messier the longer we sleep walk into this. Respect for the host and their way of life.

Pretty sure it's already been estimated that ten percent of Europe will be muslim by 2030 (or it may be 2050)

edit: it's 2050 according to the Guardian and they'll outnumber Christians worldwide by 2070

Edited by Oakey on Saturday 23 July 18:56

[jjlynn27]

Oakey said:

Sam All said:

I'd like to think that. However our fairness and our strength will be used against us in the shape of PC and such. I do not underestimate their intellect and their single mindedness, focus & sacrifice for their religion. Technology - Pakistan has nukes and no doubt there is a cosy arrangement with the KSA.

We are greater in number at present but the trend is crystal clear, because of the above, and they punch above their weight. Anyone want to bet that 10% of the UK will be Muslim by 2050? Probably sooner.

It will get messy and messier the longer we sleep walk into this. Respect for the host and their way of life.

Pretty sure it's already been estimated that ten percent of Europe will be muslim by 2030 (or it may be 2050)

edit: it's 2050 according to the Guardian and they'll outnumber Christians worldwide by 2070

Edited by Oakey on Saturday 23 July 18:56

You reckon anyone knows what's going to happen by 2070?

So sad to see grown men in fear over something that'll 'happen' 30-50 years from now.

Bonkers. And 'they' part is really quite telling.

[Sam All]

jjlynn27 said:

Oakey said:

Sam All said:

I'd like to think that. However our fairness and our strength will be used against us in the shape of PC and such. I do not underestimate their intellect and their single mindedness, focus & sacrifice for their religion. Technology - Pakistan has nukes and no doubt there is a cosy arrangement with the KSA.

We are greater in number at present but the trend is crystal clear, because of the above, and they punch above their weight. Anyone want to bet that 10% of the UK will be Muslim by 2050? Probably sooner.

It will get messy and messier the longer we sleep walk into this. Respect for the host and their way of life.

Pretty sure it's already been estimated that ten percent of Europe will be muslim by 2030 (or it may be 2050)

edit: it's 2050 according to the Guardian and they'll outnumber Christians worldwide by 2070

Edited by Oakey on Saturday 23 July 18:56

You reckon anyone knows what's going to happen by 2070?

So sad to see grown men in fear over something that'll 'happen' 30-50 years from now.

Bonkers. And 'they' part is really quite telling.

It is all rather telling, and not bonkers respectfully.

[caelite]

All that jazz said:

caelite said:

Honestly? It will either go away over time as stability returns in the middle east, or they will end up turning into the rather depressing American situation with mass shootings, where they happen every week or two but are only reported on when they are particularly gruesome.

Not sure if serious..

Eh, relative stability, there will be the Isreal issue for as long as the US supports it but asides from that the majority of the recent issues have been caused by deliberate western destabilization caused by the funding of rebel groups to incite instability and in several instances direct military interventions.

We wouldnt even have ISIS today if the US hadnt practically handed Iraq to them on a plate after overthrowing the mostly stable leader.

The Syrian crisis wouldnt of blown up anywhere near as much as it did if the rebel groups and there extremist buddies wernt aquiring western arms.

Al Qaeda would be nowhere near as strong as it was in the early 00s if 'desert storm' never happened in the 90s

Hell, touching on the Isreal issue it would have been dead and burried 40 years ago if the west didnt support there aggressions towards there neighbours.

[BigLion]

jjlynn27 said:

Oakey said:

Sam All said:

I'd like to think that. However our fairness and our strength will be used against us in the shape of PC and such. I do not underestimate their intellect and their single mindedness, focus & sacrifice for their religion. Technology - Pakistan has nukes and no doubt there is a cosy arrangement with the KSA.

We are greater in number at present but the trend is crystal clear, because of the above, and they punch above their weight. Anyone want to bet that 10% of the UK will be Muslim by 2050? Probably sooner.

It will get messy and messier the longer we sleep walk into this. Respect for the host and their way of life.

Pretty sure it's already been estimated that ten percent of Europe will be muslim by 2030 (or it may be 2050)

edit: it's 2050 according to the Guardian and they'll outnumber Christians worldwide by 2070

Edited by Oakey on Saturday 23 July 18:56

You reckon anyone knows what's going to happen by 2070?

So sad to see grown men in fear over something that'll 'happen' 30-50 years from now.

Bonkers. And 'they' part is really quite telling.

Population trends are not that hard to forecast 50 years into the future - in fact it is rather straight forward, it's not like trying to predict whether it's going to be a white Xmas.

As a nation you have to plan for the future, with a mindset like yours we would never have bothered with the car or space exploration!

[BigLion]

Greg66 said:

BigLion said:

With yet another likely terrorist attack

Except it wasn't.

Thank god I used the word 'likely' then, but this wasn't about Munich per se but the more generic terrorism issue in Western Europe - unless you only operate with a 24hr memory. Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

[All that jazz]

caelite said:

Eh, relative stability, there will be the Isreal issue for as long as the US supports it but asides from that the majority of the recent issues have been caused by deliberate western destabilization caused by the funding of rebel groups to incite instability and in several instances direct military interventions.

[b]We wouldnt even have ISIS today if the US hadnt practically handed Iraq to them on a plate after overthrowing the mostly stable leader.

The Syrian crisis wouldnt of blown up anywhere near as much as it did if the rebel groups and there extremist buddies wernt aquiring western arms.

Al Qaeda would be nowhere near as strong as it was in the early 00s if 'desert storm' never happened in the 90s

Hell, touching on the Isreal issue it would have been dead and burried 40 years ago if the west didnt support there aggressions towards there neighbours.[/b]

That's not necessarily true and also a rather blinkered view on things. If you look past what the Biased Broadcasting Corporation spews out and tries to have us believe and do further research of your own you'll see that it's a lot more complex. Most of the countries out there are so fked up it's impossible to tell who the actual good guys are and in many cases it's a question of who is the least bad as there are no good guys. I do agree with you that if "the west" had kept its nose out of all these basket case countries and let them get on with killing each other or whatever it is they do then we might not be facing that current and past terrorist attacks that we are. No-one knows for sure, though.

[BigLion]

rscott said:

Digga said:

Not all Islam us evil, no. Not all Muslims want to change society into a caliphate, but there are some fundamental nodes of conflict between large parts of Islam and liberal, Western culture:
- Gender equality
- Sexual equality
- Alcohol
- Dress (or lack of)

All of the above are sticking points; the West will not yield on these. Moving forward, Islam has to deal with this. It cannot expect pockets of Sharia to shield it from core, basic human rights, if it wants not just to exist, but to integrate with the West. It has to change.

Some are not unique to Muslims though - alcohol is banned by other religions too (Sikhs & Mormons, for example).

Sharia law obviously shouldn't replace or override British laws, but parts of it aren't incompatible, just as parts of the Jewish courts can operate within our laws.

The key is to work with all these faiths to ensure that if any religious courts exist, they do so in an open and public manner which is compatible with existing laws.

Sikhism is the polar opposite to Islam - both in terms of equality principles and level of integration into western culture. In fact it is amazing to think 500 or so years ago, sikhism was was apparently stating that men and women are equal in every regard - and yet here we are in 2016 and Islam won't even let a woman go to a Mosque

However that said, I do know plenty of Muslims who drink alcohol when we go out in London and some of the Muslim women I've gone out with would drink many under the table.

Personally the way I see this going is an ever increasing westernisation of Muslim women will change the landscape - the generation coming through are slowly turning their back on Islam in increasing numbers (relatively speaking) based on what I've seen in major urban areas.

The disillusionment with Islam from the generation coming through has increased (helped by science and being educated to demand more from life) and many now aspire /demand a better kind of life as a result. I know many Muslim women who wear the burka but will drink and have non-Muslim boyfriends / partners / husbands, and a few of them don't even bother to wear burkas now.

The change will come from within, but it will take time but some green shoots can be seen

[BigLion]

jjlynn27 said:

BigLion said:

Population trends are not that hard to forecast 50 years into the future - in fact it is rather straight forward, it's not like trying to predict whether it's going to be a white Xmas.

As a nation you have to plan for the future, with a mindset like yours we would never have bothered with the car or space exploration!

You are right, I'm the blinkered one with 'omg another islamist attack'. No, that was you wasn't it?

The whole 'oh "they'll" outnumber Christians' bs is just that, bs. Plan for the future? How are you going to 'plan' for the number of 'them' in the future?

'BigGirlsBlouse' more likely, stop being scared so much.

As for car and space exploration; .

Please don't overwhelm your post with facts as heaven forbid you might develop a more intelligent grasp of the subject matter. Anyhow you stick with the play on names and I'll continue to interact with the adults on this thread

[GoodOlBoy]

Digga said:

Not all Islam us evil, no. Not all Muslims want to change society into a caliphate, but there are some fundamental nodes of conflict between large parts of Islam and liberal, Western culture:
- Gender equality
- Sexual equality
- Alcohol
- Dress (or lack of)

All of the above are sticking points; the West will not yield on these. Moving forward, Islam has to deal with this. It cannot expect pockets of Sharia to shield it from core, basic human rights, if it wants not just to exist, but to integrate with the West. It has to change.

Surely the point is that Islamic values make integration difficult if not impossible. Islam can't change in the same way as Christianity has.

Hence the large Muslim-only population centres that are steadily increasing in size in the UK and Europe.

[jjlynn27]

BigLion said:

Population trends are not that hard to forecast 50 years into the future - in fact it is rather straight forward, it's not like trying to predict whether it's going to be a white Xmas.

As a nation you have to plan for the future, with a mindset like yours we would never have bothered with the car or space exploration!

How do you 'plan' for population growth? Hand out more condoms to certain parts of society? Build the wall?

[BigLion]

jjlynn27 said:

BigLion said:

Population trends are not that hard to forecast 50 years into the future - in fact it is rather straight forward, it's not like trying to predict whether it's going to be a white Xmas.

As a nation you have to plan for the future, with a mindset like yours we would never have bothered with the car or space exploration!

How do you 'plan' for population growth? Hand out more condoms to certain parts of society? Build the wall?

National infrastructure development as an example...

I suspect in your wild outrage you have probably confused planning for population growth as being some form of population control.

Btw if you want to control population just look at the policies that have / are being deployed in China, Japan and India. I'm not interested in debating the nature of their polices, but just want to help educate you.

[jjlynn27]

BigLion said:

jjlynn27 said:

BigLion said:

Population trends are not that hard to forecast 50 years into the future - in fact it is rather straight forward, it's not like trying to predict whether it's going to be a white Xmas.

As a nation you have to plan for the future, with a mindset like yours we would never have bothered with the car or space exploration!

How do you 'plan' for population growth? Hand out more condoms to certain parts of society? Build the wall?

National infrastructure development as an example...

I suspect in your wild outrage you have probably confused planning for population growth as being some form of population control.

Btw if you want to control population just look at the policies that have / are being deployed in China, Japan and India. I'm not interested in debating the nature of their polices, but just want to help educate you.

I'm not sure where you got 'wild outrage' from, but if it makes you feel any better, sure, why not.
Lets step back, I was laughing at the statement of someone as frightened as you about what'll happen in 50 to 70 years. It wasn't about population growth, it was about population growth of certain segments of society.

The point, and even you can understand, was that I not sure why should anyone particularly care if one set of people that believe in deity, outnumbers other group of people that believe in other deity in 50 - 70 years time. As for population growth predictions;

[caelite]

All that jazz said:

caelite said:

Eh, relative stability, there will be the Isreal issue for as long as the US supports it but asides from that the majority of the recent issues have been caused by deliberate western destabilization caused by the funding of rebel groups to incite instability and in several instances direct military interventions.

[b]We wouldnt even have ISIS today if the US hadnt practically handed Iraq to them on a plate after overthrowing the mostly stable leader.

The Syrian crisis wouldnt of blown up anywhere near as much as it did if the rebel groups and there extremist buddies wernt aquiring western arms.

Al Qaeda would be nowhere near as strong as it was in the early 00s if 'desert storm' never happened in the 90s

Hell, touching on the Isreal issue it would have been dead and burried 40 years ago if the west didnt support there aggressions towards there neighbours.[/b]

That's not necessarily true and also a rather blinkered view on things. If you look past what the Biased Broadcasting Corporation spews out and tries to have us believe and do further research of your own you'll see that it's a lot more complex. Most of the countries out there are so fked up it's impossible to tell who the actual good guys are and in many cases it's a question of who is the least bad as there are no good guys. I do agree with you that if "the west" had kept its nose out of all these basket case countries and let them get on with killing each other or whatever it is they do then we might not be facing that current and past terrorist attacks that we are. No-one knows for sure, though.

Y'see this is one of the issues. "Good guys" and "bad guys" are purely relative. I will cite the obvious example that is Russia & Putin, most if not all western news sources talk about him as if he is some kind of boogie man, yet in the country where he is elected he has approval ratings higher than the majority of western leaders, does this make him a "bad guy"? If so how? And should the will of western ideals overule that of a foreign electorate?

A more relavent example being Assad or even Hussain? These where both leaders which, well not being ideal, where widely liked by there people, why should it be right for a foreign electorate to determine whether or not they are good or bad?

Without western meddling the militant opposition to these leaders would have been quickly squashed and ignored which, well not being ideal would do so much good for the sake of global stability.

Also I stopped watching the BBC long ago, I agree the bias is ingrained into all its political coverage, the fact that they can do what they do and keep there public funding is disgusting.