Discussion
Exit polls suggest Merkel is on course for a 4th win, which is frankly bizarre but not so surprising (to anyone who isn't a politician) is the emergence of AfD who have taken 1 in 8 of the votes. Since AfD are anti immigration, they have predictably been labelled far right and there's already protests outside their headquarters by the professionally enraged loudie leftie agitators.
If you think Theresa May barely scraped in to government with over 40% of the vote share, Merkels 33% is a shockingly poor result.
The next few days will be utterly predictable. Junker will greet Merkel and plant one on her cheek, and make some claim about the German people having complete faith in the EU and that the result makes the EU stronger than before etc.
Meanwhile, alt left will get all agitated and shouty about the AfD result, few running battles, water cannons etc, anyone who voted AfD is racist etc etc etc and the people of Germany become ever more divided and the whole thing continues closer to the abyss.
For 1 in 8 to vote for a party that is solely anti migrant is a damning indictment of Germany's and the EU's migration policy. That HAS to be recognised, and yet one could write the scrips for the next few days, insofar as the result is conclusive proof everything is fine in the EU, huge confidence etc etc etc.
If you think Theresa May barely scraped in to government with over 40% of the vote share, Merkels 33% is a shockingly poor result.
The next few days will be utterly predictable. Junker will greet Merkel and plant one on her cheek, and make some claim about the German people having complete faith in the EU and that the result makes the EU stronger than before etc.
Meanwhile, alt left will get all agitated and shouty about the AfD result, few running battles, water cannons etc, anyone who voted AfD is racist etc etc etc and the people of Germany become ever more divided and the whole thing continues closer to the abyss.
For 1 in 8 to vote for a party that is solely anti migrant is a damning indictment of Germany's and the EU's migration policy. That HAS to be recognised, and yet one could write the scrips for the next few days, insofar as the result is conclusive proof everything is fine in the EU, huge confidence etc etc etc.
Wiccan of Darkness said:
Exit polls suggest Merkel is on course for a 4th win, which is frankly bizarre but not so surprising (to anyone who isn't a politician) is the emergence of AfD who have taken 1 in 8 of the votes. Since AfD are anti immigration, they have predictably been labelled far right and there's already protests outside their headquarters by the professionally enraged loudie leftie agitators.
If you think Theresa May barely scraped in to government with over 40% of the vote share, Merkels 33% is a shockingly poor result.
The next few days will be utterly predictable. Junker will greet Merkel and plant one on her cheek, and make some claim about the German people having complete faith in the EU and that the result makes the EU stronger than before etc.
Meanwhile, alt left will get all agitated and shouty about the AfD result, few running battles,for water cannons etc, anyone who voted AfD is racist etc etc etc and the people of Germany become ever more divided and the whole thing continues closer to the abyss.
For 1 in 8 to vote for a party that is solely anti migrant is a damning indictment of Germany's and the EU's migration policy. That HAS to be recognised, and yet one could write the scrips for the next few days, insofar as the result is conclusive proof everything is fine in the EU, huge confidence etc etc etc.
It's already been written off Fella, total non event and not in any way newsworthy.If you think Theresa May barely scraped in to government with over 40% of the vote share, Merkels 33% is a shockingly poor result.
The next few days will be utterly predictable. Junker will greet Merkel and plant one on her cheek, and make some claim about the German people having complete faith in the EU and that the result makes the EU stronger than before etc.
Meanwhile, alt left will get all agitated and shouty about the AfD result, few running battles,for water cannons etc, anyone who voted AfD is racist etc etc etc and the people of Germany become ever more divided and the whole thing continues closer to the abyss.
For 1 in 8 to vote for a party that is solely anti migrant is a damning indictment of Germany's and the EU's migration policy. That HAS to be recognised, and yet one could write the scrips for the next few days, insofar as the result is conclusive proof everything is fine in the EU, huge confidence etc etc etc.
The story is the 4th win for Merkel, the AfD's possible 100 seats in the Bundestag is nothing more than a foot note and of little consequence.
don'tbesilly said:
It's already been written off Fella, total non event and not in any way newsworthy.
The story is the 4th win for Merkel, the AfD's possible 100 seats in the Bundestag is nothing more than a foot note and of little consequence.
Susie Boniface on Sky news press preview is spinning like I've never seen before, and I've seen some serious spinning from her. It's actually funny how mental she is. worth a watch if you have Sky.The story is the 4th win for Merkel, the AfD's possible 100 seats in the Bundestag is nothing more than a foot note and of little consequence.
Wiccan of Darkness said:
If you think Theresa May barely scraped in to government with over 40% of the vote share, Merkels 33% is a shockingly poor result.
You are not comparing like to like. The federal voting system in Germany is different to that in the UK, at least for a GE. Given what we were told about a rising tide against Merkel, her circa 33% is quite a surprise. It's about the same as the Federal elections in 2000 when she came to power. May got under 39%.
Derek Smith said:
You are not comparing like to like. The federal voting system in Germany is different to that in the UK, at least for a GE. Given what we were told about a rising tide against Merkel, her circa 33% is quite a surprise. It's about the same as the Federal elections in 2000 when she came to power.
May got under 39%.
May got 42.3%, Cameron in 2015 had 36.3%May got under 39%.
Merkel came to power in 2005 Derek. Last time round Merkel had 41.3%, so dropped 9%. What's really the story is the loss of support for both major parties and the gains going to the far right, just as you saw in France.
jsf said:
... What's really the story is the loss of support for both major parties and the gains going to the far right, just as you saw in France.
No story there jsf. None at all. They're not in power. The far right has been quashed once more. Upward and onward for the EU, Nothing to see here at all.I don't think Merkel's stupid enough to ignore their rise. She's noted something on it already and having to address the issues that have pushed people that way. She's spot on. Unfortunately I'm far from convinced that is compatible with her vision of the EU.
Just as with France and The Netherlands, this GE was interesting only in the trends. Same thing with UKIP here (not that I am comparing them to parties like FN and AFD!). The victorious politicians need to wake up, but I'm not convinced they have it in them.
I also don't think this was a great result for the Brexit talks. Merkel will have her hands full for a while getting any semblance of a sensible government sorted out.
Fun and games across Europe.
jsf said:
Derek Smith said:
You are not comparing like to like. The federal voting system in Germany is different to that in the UK, at least for a GE. Given what we were told about a rising tide against Merkel, her circa 33% is quite a surprise. It's about the same as the Federal elections in 2000 when she came to power.
May got under 39%.
May got 42.3%, Cameron in 2015 had 36.3%May got under 39%.
Merkel came to power in 2005 Derek. Last time round Merkel had 41.3%, so dropped 9%. What's really the story is the loss of support for both major parties and the gains going to the far right, just as you saw in France.
Dereks right; her circa 33% is quite a surprise
She was predicted a fall only to 36%.
REALIST123 said:
del mar said:
That is a lot of racist idiots !!
Not really. Just a lot of people let down by their governments and the EU, doing what little they can to win some change.
The idiots are those who've driven them there, just as in the UK referendum.
REALIST123 said:
del mar said:
That is a lot of racist idiots !!
Not really. Just a lot of people let down by their governments and the EU, doing what little they can to win some change.
The idiots are those who've driven them there, just as in the UK referendum.
As for a lot of people being let down by their government; total, unmitigated bs. If you were born in western Europe after WW2 you've already won the lottery of life. Excluding people with disabilities or some set of very unlucky circumstances, most people have only themselves to blame if they are not where they want to be in life. The same losers would present a significant majority of the 'protest' vote.
greygoose said:
Or a lot of idiots who think that immigrants are the reason for their failure in life, easier to blame someone else rather than yourself.
That sort of argument loses effectiveness the more people those parties attract.Being that dismissive is exactly what ends up with Trump, Brexit etc.
Murph7355 said:
That sort of argument loses effectiveness the more people those parties attract.
Being that dismissive is exactly what ends up with Trump, Brexit etc.
Not at all, what drives people to Trump, Brexit, etc. is desperation to blame someone else. It's presumably easier to say 'see, they say it's the immigrants/darkies fault for me being stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage' than 'fBeing that dismissive is exactly what ends up with Trump, Brexit etc.
k, while others were studying hard, and devising plans how to get where they want to be in life, I was drinking myself to oblivion and now I'm stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage'. The rather simple fact is; for such people, not Brexit, not Le Pen, nor Trump will make life better. They'll still reminisce about the good old times while finding new reasons for being an abject, perpetual failure.
Before sensitive flowers start, no, I don't think that this applies to all Brexit or Trump voters.
jjlynn27 said:
Murph7355 said:
That sort of argument loses effectiveness the more people those parties attract.
Being that dismissive is exactly what ends up with Trump, Brexit etc.
Not at all, what drives people to Trump, Brexit, etc. is desperation to blame someone else. It's presumably easier to say 'see, they say it's the immigrants/darkies fault for me being stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage' than 'fBeing that dismissive is exactly what ends up with Trump, Brexit etc.
k, while others were studying hard, and devising plans how to get where they want to be in life, I was drinking myself to oblivion and now I'm stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage'. The rather simple fact is; for such people, not Brexit, not Le Pen, nor Trump will make life better. They'll still reminisce about the good old times while finding new reasons for being an abject, perpetual failure.
Before sensitive flowers start, no, I don't think that this applies to all Brexit or Trump voters.
just like greygoose said
greygoose said:
Or a lot of idiots who think that immigrants discrimination are the reason for their failure in life, easier to blame someone else rather than yourself.
Not-The-Messiah said:
jjlynn27 said:
Murph7355 said:
That sort of argument loses effectiveness the more people those parties attract.
Being that dismissive is exactly what ends up with Trump, Brexit etc.
Not at all, what drives people to Trump, Brexit, etc. is desperation to blame someone else. It's presumably easier to say 'see, they say it's the immigrants/darkies fault for me being stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage' than 'fBeing that dismissive is exactly what ends up with Trump, Brexit etc.
k, while others were studying hard, and devising plans how to get where they want to be in life, I was drinking myself to oblivion and now I'm stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage'. The rather simple fact is; for such people, not Brexit, not Le Pen, nor Trump will make life better. They'll still reminisce about the good old times while finding new reasons for being an abject, perpetual failure.
Before sensitive flowers start, no, I don't think that this applies to all Brexit or Trump voters.
just like greygoose said
greygoose said:
Or a lot of idiots who think that immigrants discrimination are the reason for their failure in life, easier to blame someone else rather than yourself.
jjlynn27 said:
Murph7355 said:
That sort of argument loses effectiveness the more people those parties attract.
Being that dismissive is exactly what ends up with Trump, Brexit etc.
Not at all, what drives people to Trump, Brexit, etc. is desperation to blame someone else. It's presumably easier to say 'see, they say it's the immigrants/darkies fault for me being stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage' than 'fBeing that dismissive is exactly what ends up with Trump, Brexit etc.
k, while others were studying hard, and devising plans how to get where they want to be in life, I was drinking myself to oblivion and now I'm stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage'. The rather simple fact is; for such people, not Brexit, not Le Pen, nor Trump will make life better. They'll still reminisce about the good old times while finding new reasons for being an abject, perpetual failure.
Before sensitive flowers start, no, I don't think that this applies to all Brexit or Trump voters.
Zod said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
jjlynn27 said:
Murph7355 said:
That sort of argument loses effectiveness the more people those parties attract.
Being that dismissive is exactly what ends up with Trump, Brexit etc.
Not at all, what drives people to Trump, Brexit, etc. is desperation to blame someone else. It's presumably easier to say 'see, they say it's the immigrants/darkies fault for me being stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage' than 'fBeing that dismissive is exactly what ends up with Trump, Brexit etc.
k, while others were studying hard, and devising plans how to get where they want to be in life, I was drinking myself to oblivion and now I'm stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage'. The rather simple fact is; for such people, not Brexit, not Le Pen, nor Trump will make life better. They'll still reminisce about the good old times while finding new reasons for being an abject, perpetual failure.
Before sensitive flowers start, no, I don't think that this applies to all Brexit or Trump voters.
just like greygoose said
greygoose said:
Or a lot of idiots who think that immigrants discrimination are the reason for their failure in life, easier to blame someone else rather than yourself.
I agree with a lot of what jjlynn27 had to say. I just don't like this idea that it seems to be perfectly acceptable to stereotype one group call them stupid and lazy. But then you have other groups who if looked at in a comparable way are very similar. But get a fee pass and are seen as Nobel is cause.
jjlynn27 said:
Not at all, what drives people to Trump, Brexit, etc. is desperation to blame someone else. It's presumably easier to say 'see, they say it's the immigrants/darkies fault for me being stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage' than 'fk, while others were studying hard, and devising plans how to get where they want to be in life, I was drinking myself to oblivion and now I'm stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage'.
The rather simple fact is; for such people, not Brexit, not Le Pen, nor Trump will make life better. They'll still reminisce about the good old times while finding new reasons for being an abject, perpetual failure.
Before sensitive flowers start, no, I don't think that this applies to all Brexit or Trump voters.
That last quip would actually suggest that you do think all. k, while others were studying hard, and devising plans how to get where they want to be in life, I was drinking myself to oblivion and now I'm stuck in a dead-end job on a minimum wage'. The rather simple fact is; for such people, not Brexit, not Le Pen, nor Trump will make life better. They'll still reminisce about the good old times while finding new reasons for being an abject, perpetual failure.
Before sensitive flowers start, no, I don't think that this applies to all Brexit or Trump voters.
If not all, then what percentage, in your opinion?
Are the "sensitive flowers" (or "stalkers" as you refer to them), in your opinion ones who question your outfall? Or do they have another definition in your world?
Worst result for CDU-CSU since WW2
Another ringing endorsement for business as usual in the EU
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41376577
Another ringing endorsement for business as usual in the EU
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41376577
jsf said:
Based on the latest elections, UK is looking the most integrated country in Europe with the least issues with immigrants. Which is exactly what we are, but you try explaining that to people like slasher,
Perhaps so.What we actually have is a centre right party that is listening to what the voters want. Hence why their manifesto for the last few elections has contained a pledge to limit net migration to 100k a year and also why we have only taken a token number of refugees from the ME.
If the Conservative government had taken in a million refugees prior to the June election what share of the vote would they have got?
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